tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post2374552527859543453..comments2024-03-18T16:51:50.688-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: Kingman UFO CrashKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-27133988521181260262013-11-25T21:04:36.550-08:002013-11-25T21:04:36.550-08:00I was 7 years old on May 19, 1953 when Johnny Kram...I was 7 years old on May 19, 1953 when Johnny Kramnicz and his partner William Cockburn were murdered at an isolated cabin located about 3.5 miles NW of Oatman, Arizona. My father and I knew both men personally. They owned a bar/drugstore in Oatman. About a week after the incident my father and I went to the crime scene. There were two 22 cal holes in the screen door. It looked to me like both men were probably reading in bed at night when they were shot in the head. My father suspected they were killed as part of a robbery attempt as it was rumored they had a stash of money from their successful business hidden somewhere on the property. The crime was never solved. An abandoned car was found a few miles away at the Silver Creek Spring, located only a short walk from Route 66 where someone could hitch a ride or walk back into Oatman or up the draw to nearby Goldroad. I lived in Oatman at the time and never heard any rumors or reports of crashed UFO's.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12385283147689761610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-23198471887997438082010-05-21T09:17:36.875-07:002010-05-21T09:17:36.875-07:00Kevin,
Since Roswell has been mentioned, what do...Kevin,<br /> Since Roswell has been mentioned, what do you think about the documents found in the Peabody Museum archives from Dr. Herbert Dick which place him and his archeology team at Bat Cave on the plains of San Augustin between the 1st and 14th of July in 1947?<br /> The documents seem to include letters from Dick to a faculty advisor on the status of his work.<br /> Since Dick denied being in New Mexico I was wondering about the difference between the story he told and the letters.<br /><br />WayneSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04038947773327250058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-60877167578436127842010-05-21T09:17:33.442-07:002010-05-21T09:17:33.442-07:00Kevin,
Since Roswell has been mentioned, what do...Kevin,<br /> Since Roswell has been mentioned, what do you think about the documents found in the Peabody Museum archives from Dr. Herbert Dick which place him and his archeology team at Bat Cave on the plains of San Augustin between the 1st and 14th of July in 1947?<br /> The documents seem to include letters from Dick to a faculty advisor on the status of his work.<br /> Since Dick denied being in New Mexico I was wondering about the difference between the story he told and the letters.<br /><br />WayneSargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04038947773327250058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-10927138692532575162010-05-21T03:40:03.252-07:002010-05-21T03:40:03.252-07:00Lol, I don't doubt that bad eating habits and ...Lol, I don't doubt that bad eating habits and inactivity will lead to high future mortality. But total extinction? No, not everybody is that stupid.<br />Btw a major economic collapse may prevent a lot of food from reaching markets. In any event, I suggested that the fundamental problem is current values. The present system assumes the individual can make rational choices and do what's best for himself. Chronic health problems (among other issue)certainly argue otherwise, and call the present system into question. When economic, health etc crises finally get out of hand, the result IMO will be the end, not of humanity, but the democratic system which empowers the irresponsible masses. In most authoritarian societies, people remained thin, in spite of themselves. They just couldn't become obese or lazy because there just wasn't much junk food available. Very little of the national wealth was blown on it.starmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884942748644499035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-46416661186271296742010-05-20T05:00:47.836-07:002010-05-20T05:00:47.836-07:00Starman:
I'd have to disagree. My view is tha...Starman:<br /><br />I'd have to disagree. My view is that even in a major economic collapse, those obsessed by vast amounts of food will still find a way to shovel it down - even if it means sacrificing something else, such as new clothes, the latest IPoD, computers etc etc.<br /><br />For today's shovel-it-down society, the fast-food addiction will be the thing they hang on to until the very end; no matter what the economy.<br /><br />You refer to decadence, extreme leisure and sensual gratification. I don't call sitting around, eating huge amounts, doing nothing but drive-thru and never walking again to any significant degree in that way as you. I call it sheer laziness.<br /><br />I was reading an intreresting article a couple of weeks ago, about how the lifespan in the US has risen, but how with the rise of millions of blubber-kids, and the accompanying diabetes, heart-disease etc, the lifespan is likely to drop significantly as the 21st century progresses.<br /><br />Coupled with the fact that I see numerous people hooked on meds for stress, depression and illnesses and conditions that people never heard of 20 years ago, I foresee nothing more in the future than obese, pill-popping shuffling-around lumps. Actually, I'm wrong. That's not the future. It's right now.<br /><br />But, even though we disagree, it's an interesting (albeit distinctly off-topic!) debate!<br /><br />I still, however, think it will be food, inactivity etc that will push millions and millions to early graves. And then what of their kids and theirs and theirs? <br /><br />Did you see that film, WALL-E? (I think that's the spelling). That will be the future of the Human Race - fat, all driving carts. But unlike in WALL-E, there wont be a happy ending for us - just millions/billions in chronic bad health and dropping like flies.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-5997188387316182262010-05-20T03:55:15.507-07:002010-05-20T03:55:15.507-07:00I agree that "god" doesn't exist but...I agree that "god" doesn't exist but extinction through obesity strikes me as temporocentric, lol. Sure, present society overconsumes, and these are the pretty much the doldrums of history. But just wait until there's an economic collapse, stemming in part from vast debt, or the unsustainability of overconsumption. Fundamentally, decadence stems from present values carried to their logical extreme. Extreme leisure and ssensual gratification are what the masses want, and get, through democracy. In the end that, not humanity, will be the casualty.starmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884942748644499035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-2212348595161400012010-05-19T07:56:31.640-07:002010-05-19T07:56:31.640-07:00CDA:
LOL. By the skinny looks of the pesky Grays,...CDA:<br /><br />LOL. By the skinny looks of the pesky Grays, those scrawny souls are seemingly very active, avoid soda drinks and actually move their limbs from time to time in that manner that used to be known to one and all as "walking" - a process that was once quite popular, but that is now nothing more than a fond and fading memory to many. <br /><br />People say the Grays are on an evolutionary decline, but that's nothing compared to our decline and the rise of the Diabetic Fatties and Non-Walkers that threaten to engulf the world and dictate future human physical activity (or lack of it).<br /><br />Hail those who guzzle 2-gallons of sugary pop per day! Hail those who shovel down gigantic amounts of cholestrol-loaded crap every day! Hail those for who going to the store means only ever doing drive-thru and not actually getting out of the car and walking into the store! Hail those who can't walk any more due to the weight they're carrying and who need motorized carts instead to haul their bulk around! Hail the ever-increasing rise of the Cart-People! Hail lower life-spans, more heart disease, more diabetes! Hail the day when the Human Race's legs whither away through lack of use! Hail the end!Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-14377298287893612162010-05-19T07:29:57.838-07:002010-05-19T07:29:57.838-07:00Nick:
Boy we could have a great discussion on all ...Nick:<br />Boy we could have a great discussion on all this, but it would consume far too much time & space. But it is far more exciting than the rather trivial Kingman UFO crash!<br /> <br />I wonder what the Body Mass Index (BMI) of the average ET is. Any idea?cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-36111229841670001432010-05-19T06:41:53.524-07:002010-05-19T06:41:53.524-07:00CDA:
I have supreme confidence in our ability and...CDA:<br /><br />I have supreme confidence in our ability and likelihood to screw-up.<br /><br />I don't think there's going to be a huge meteorite/comet hit us etc.<br /><br />Nor do I think the machines are going to take over.<br /><br />I think our demise will be very different.<br /><br />Everywhere I go, I see fat diabetics shuffling around - and that includes kids of 10 or 11. Fat lumps of sugar-loaded lard who won't reach 50, and whose only bit of "exercise" is going from the bed to the breakfast table, etc.<br /><br />I see an ever-increasing dumbing-down in education, and I think that our end will come due to falling life-spans (caused by the fact that massive amounts of unhealthy food, and an over-reliance on prescribed mood-altering meds that have side-effects worse than the things they're supposed to cure), general apathy, lethargy etc.<br /><br />We'll psychologically and physically implode - not in a giant explosion or Hollywood type disaster movie. It will be a slow drift to extinction thanks to sugary drinks, fat kids who wont get off their fat arses and who become fat adults whose evn fatter kids wont be able to get off their arses even if they tried.<br /><br />Science-fiction sometimes talks about scenarios of us having extended life-spans to 120/150 years etc. <br /><br />From the way things are going, I'd say 50 years from now the life-span (in the US, at least) will be about 55. Unless the fattys change their ways and the kids do something beyond sit inside all day (whether at school or home).<br /><br />Alien wont destroy us. Global Warming wont destroy us. And a non-existent God wont bring forth Judgement Day. <br /><br />Sugar and a lack of bodily movement will be the end of the Human Race.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-47401225589923133272010-05-19T03:55:45.271-07:002010-05-19T03:55:45.271-07:00cda:
"I am curious as to why you doubt that ...cda:<br /><br />"I am curious as to why you doubt that there will still be a human race in the 22nd and 23rd centuries."<br /><br />Even if scenarios of nuclear annihilation and environmental catastrophe are wrong, futurists have long suggested that machine intelligence may eventually replace us. I don't think it'll be complete though, as humanity may also be enhanced.<br /><br /><br />"By that time it is probable that we shall have discovered genuine ET life elsewhere."<br /><br />Really? If we can discover THEM in one or two centuries, why can't they be aware of us now? One thing is virtually certain. Terrestrial civilization is new, and far behind any other civilization. If we can find them in 1-2 centuries, they almost certainly found us LONG AGO. Your attitude reminds me of Sagan. He suggested contact via radio would happen in the FUTURE, and he pointed to an old legend of a fishlike creature as evidence of an ET visit in the PAST. But he rejected UFOlogy i.e. reports of aliens here and now. I don't think he really had the stomach for ETs. Either they were separated by vast distances or time, or he just couldn't deal with the topic.starmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884942748644499035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-31460471895155712642010-05-19T02:08:19.355-07:002010-05-19T02:08:19.355-07:00Nick:
I am curious as to why you doubt that there ...Nick:<br />I am curious as to why you doubt that there will still be a human race in the 22nd and 23rd centuries. By that time it is probable that we shall have discovered genuine ET life elsewhere (although it is dangerous to make such predictions). If we do indeed discover such life, I suggest that Roswell will be entirely forgotten and we can then get on with the study of this ET intelligence and its ramifications for mankind. In fact ufology and ufologists will cease to exist at this point. <br /><br />In other words, I predict that once REAL ETs are discovered Roswell will vanish from our thoughts, thankfully forever. <br /><br />And yes, I totally agree that nothing can ever be proved about "Roswell is ET" until actual hardware or documentation is found.cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-82968209976057744842010-05-18T15:02:57.017-07:002010-05-18T15:02:57.017-07:00David:
Again, we agree to differ. As it was when ...David:<br /><br />Again, we agree to differ. As it was when Body Snatchers was published, so it will always be for me and you.<br /><br />There's only one way any of this will ever be rectified, and that's if undeniable proof of what happened at Roswell surfaces.<br /><br />But that hasn't happened yet, and - as I note in the UFO Iconoclasts link I cited in an earlier comment in this very thread - I have extremely grave doubts that it ever will surface.<br /><br />And by proof, I don't mean more testimony: I mean undeniable old files, undeniable old photos, a body.<br /><br />If that undeniable proof doesn't surface, it at least means that UFO researchers can happily debate - 50 or 100 or 200 years from now - endlessly on whether a Mogul balloon came down, or why Marcel Sr. didn't show Marcel Jr. the memory-metal, or how many bodies were found at this site or that site, or if Corso was telling the truth or not.<br /><br />Even I, having written a book on Roswell, have to admit that unless hard evidence of Roswell (in the form of definitive proof) surfaces, there is absolutely no doubt that 22nd Century and 23rd Century versions of me and you will be having this very same debate - if there is a Human Race still around (which I doubt), and if they even still care (which I also doubt).<br /><br />In one sense, it's good that a genuinely intriguing 63 year old case can produce such interest (such as the 200-plus comments at some of the previous Roswell/crashed UFO posts at Kevin's blog).<br /><br />On the other hand, however, I see so much energy spent on researchers arguing, moaning and name-calling about what happened at Roswell, instead of actually trying to find an alternative to hitting the endless brick-wall that prevents us getting proof of what happened Roswell.<br /><br />And by proof, I mean the goods, the crown-jewels, etc. Without that, no-one outside of Ufology will ever really care. <br /><br />Can Roswell be taken much further? I don't know. But, I do know that a hell of a lot of energy and emotion spent endlessly debating on the number of bodies, or how many crash-sites, or what Cavitt and Rickett actually saw and knew, could be better spent pursuing ways to get a real, meaningful in-road to the secret that someone is sitting on, somewhere in the depths of officialdom.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-76447448420375605502010-05-18T14:00:08.262-07:002010-05-18T14:00:08.262-07:00..."Alleged genetically deformed and retarded...<i><br />..."Alleged genetically deformed and retarded children from various mental institutions in New Mexico, the closer to Roswell or Lincoln County the better...."<br /><br />...that came from John Price's book. Someone should chase that down with him.</i><br /><br />Sheesh! No one questions the existence of genetically deformed and retarded individuals, many of them hidden away at institutions. There were even some in Lincoln County and near Roswell. But so friggin' what? They exist everywhere in the world. From that you create this giant leap that somehow because they look abnormal and they exist they become automatic candidates for Roswell aliens. This sort of total illogic permeates many of your crashed saucer theories, be they Roswell or Kingman.<br /><br /><i>By the way, I have a great photo of none other than William Randolph "Randy" Lovelace taken at Fort Stanton (date unknown, but taken outside the main-building and with 2 "suits" and 2 military types around him, all with big smiles).<br /><br />I recommend you read more on Lovelace...<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Lovelace_II<br /><br />Does this prove anything (before you ask)? No!</i><br /><br />No, of course not, so why bring it up?<br /><br /><i>But, we have someone at an installation that held handicapped and Japanese people, and who was deeply involved in matters of a high-altitude/aerospace medicine nature.<br /><br />Again, proves nothing; but for me, worthy of further research to find why he was there...just down the road from where all the Roswell fuss kicked off...,</i><br /><br />Nick, you remind me of someone who does a Google search with a few key words and comes up with a million "hits", thereby deduces they are somehow all connected to one another, instead of 99.999% of them being irrelevant and random garbage.<br /><br />Any decent researcher will try to filter out most of the garbage with a little skepticism, logical & critical thinking, and just plain horse sense. I don't see any such filters in place for you, where it seems anything goes. Thinking outside of the box on occasion has its merits, but this is ridiculous.<br /><br />Well, let's see, Robert Goddard did rocket tests near Roswell, and rocket fuel can be carcinogenic, leading to genetically deformed children, some of them housed near Roswell, and Dr. Lovelace was photographed visiting one such institution for totally unknown reasons. Also Goddard was friends with Charles Lindbergh, who supported his research, and Lindbergh has been linked with Roswell and being seen at the base in the time frame. Another connection is Lovelace, Lindbergh, and Goddard were all aviation pioneers and all have craters on the moon named for them. People hypothesize aliens may have bases on the moon. Did I mention that Nazi rocket scientists were heavily influenced by Goddard, and of course German V-2's were being tested at nearby White Sands, some of which would eventually carry monkeys, which might be confused with tiny space aliens by very drunk people. Therefore we shouldn't discount the possibility that Robert Goddard and his rocket experiments were ultimately responsible for the Roswell Incident and the reports of space aliens.<br /><br />Just because I can connect everything in some absurdly obtuse way to Roswell, space, and aliens doesn't mean they really have anything to do with what happened at Roswell.David Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-83164948250314819592010-05-18T12:50:50.317-07:002010-05-18T12:50:50.317-07:00David:
Also bear in mind when you say....
...&qu...David:<br /><br />Also bear in mind when you say....<br /><br />..."Alleged genetically deformed and retarded children from various mental institutions in New Mexico, the closer to Roswell or Lincoln County the better...."<br /><br />...that came from John Price's book. Someone should chase that down with him. <br /><br />By the way, I have a great photo of none other than William Randolph "Randy" Lovelace taken at Fort Stanton (date unknown, but taken outside the main-building and with 2 "suits" and 2 military types around him, all with big smiles).<br /><br />I recommend you read more on Lovelace...<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Lovelace_II<br /><br />Does this prove anything (before you ask)? No! <br /><br />But, we have someone at an installation that held handicapped and Japanese people, and who was deeply involved in matters of a high-altitude/aerospace medicine nature.<br /><br />Again, proves nothing; but for me, worthy of further research to find why he was there...just down the road from where all the Roswell fuss kicked off...Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-82711704771922205192010-05-18T12:40:19.109-07:002010-05-18T12:40:19.109-07:00As per usual David, we will continue to disagree. ...As per usual David, we will continue to disagree. You will keep looking into the UFO angle and I won't. You will continue to accept the ET angle and I won't. Maybe one day we'll have the full story, or maybe we won't. Either way, when it comes to Roswell, we'll never agree. That's Ufology. <br /><br />Rather ironically, me and Karl were working on a book before he died called "Silas the Magnificent," a bio on Silas Newton, that would have had the Aztec story at its heart. We got a few chapters done, and a full synopsis done, but it fell apart when Karl got sicker.<br /><br />We cordially worked on this for a month or two after BS (how many times do you feel the need to reiterate what you mean when you refer to Body Snatchers as BS - I think everyone gets it by now...) was published, and before his health worsened.<br /><br />No, he didn't agree with the data in the book, but for a while he wasn't against the idea of some cold-war experiment borne out of the whole radiation experiment issue.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-12235553647239544932010-05-18T12:19:34.314-07:002010-05-18T12:19:34.314-07:00Well Nick, let us look at all the various alleged ...Well Nick, let us look at all the various alleged "Roswell aliens" you have proposed, in alleged highly criminal military experiments in alleged high altitude balloons, some with alleged nuclear reactors:<br /><br />1. Alleged tiny Japanese POW Kamikaze pilots allegedly still being held 2 years after the war's end. ("Tough little f----rs!" according to your counterintel alleged "whistleblower") <br /><br />2. Alleged deformed Chinese survivors of the Japanese Unit 731 in Manchuria (even though there are no records of any survivors of such experiments or the fact that the Japanese used normal people in their experiments or the fact that the Russians, not Americans, overran the Japanese in China)<br /><br />3. Alleged genetically deformed and retarded children from various mental institutions in New Mexico, the closer to Roswell or Lincoln County the better.<br /><br />I'm surprised you haven't thrown the small Munchkin cast of the Wizard of Oz into the mix or every deformed/retarded child or circus side-show freak in existence--maybe because you couldn't tie Roswell/Lincoln County to them some time in the last 100 years with some totally irrelevant FOIA document.<br /><br />Yes there is a good deal of BS in UFO research, and your various grasping-at-straws Roswell alien candidates are perfect examples.<br /><br />The only time I ever agreed with Karl Pflock about anything was his rebranding of your "Body Snatchers" book as "BS in the Desert". If a hard-core Roswell debunker like Pflock couldn't stomach the nonsense of Body Snatchers, that says a lot. Pflock would use any lame excuse possible to dismiss Roswell, but Body Snatchers was just too much, even for him.David Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-24658903953047229102010-05-18T10:53:28.369-07:002010-05-18T10:53:28.369-07:00David:
Also, on the topic of Fort Stanton, one bo...David:<br /><br />Also, on the topic of Fort Stanton, one book that gets little coverage commentary is "Roswell - A Quest for the Truth," written by John A. Price in 1997.<br /><br />On pages 31-32 of the book, Price recalls how, in 1978, and while working as a roofer at Hingerman (a small town southeast of Roswell), he witnessed at one particular home several unusual-looking, deformed children.<br /><br />In Price's own words, they were around "four and one-half feet tall," "had larger heads;" and "were completely hairless." Also: "...their noses and ears were very small."<br /><br />Interestingly, he added: "They were the closest I've ever seen who looked alien to me. I knew they were not."<br /><br />Further on in the book (in a chapter specifically titled Was it Ours?), Price quotes from the letter of a man who advised him that "...the aliens I was looking for were at Fort Stanton."<br /><br />The letter-writer added to Price that with respect to Fort Stanton: "...There were some pretty deformed young men there...mongoloid large heads, small ears, pin heads who could function and had shrill voices. They were supposed to be of incest, but from their looks - Outa-space."Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-50356968964999385912010-05-18T10:45:44.933-07:002010-05-18T10:45:44.933-07:00David:
Yes, I did say it doesn't prove anythi...David:<br /><br />Yes, I did say it doesn't prove anything. I don't deny that. I would hardly have said it if I didn't think that!<br /><br />But, when I heard (in the wake of the publication of Body Snatchers in 2005) from people such as yourself stating that there is no evidence of a Unit 731 link to the events at Lincoln County...but then I find official files talking about Japanese balloon flights over Lincoln County (yes: not just vague references to balloon attacks on the US or even vague references to attacks on the state of New Mexico...but over Lincoln County itself, and where Unit 731 is mentioned in the same document), yes I do think it's worth following further.<br /><br />And maybe those dots will lead somewhere, and maybe they won't. <br /><br />But, ignoring what is, at the absolute very least, an extraordinary coincidence (considering when these documents surfaced - at least 2 years after Body Snatchers was publised), would be stupid.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-36256496566089096512010-05-18T09:52:08.812-07:002010-05-18T09:52:08.812-07:00Nick Redfern wrote:
Also: you may not have seen my...Nick Redfern wrote:<br /><i>Also: you may not have seen my paper on post-Body Snatchers revelations that surfaced since the book was published in Greg Taylor's "Darklore" anthology.<br /><br />That chapter includes FOIA documents on a young boy who died in Lincoln County in the 40s from a form of plague.<br /><br />The official documents refer to whether his death could have been due to a Japanese balloon and biowar weaponry developed by Unit 731.<br /><br />This is a clear link between not just New Mexico, but Lincoln County, no less and Unit 731. These documents surfaced around 2007/8.<br /><br />The body of the boy was taken to Fort Stanton, where Japanese POWs were held in the war.<br /><br />Does this prove anything? No: just an official, FOIA documented link between Unit 731 and a death in Lincoln County, NM.</i><br /><br />Here's yet another example of where you take a totally unrelated document and use it as some sort of "corroboration" for your "BS in the Desert" scenario.<br /><br />Let's see, we have buzzwords like FOIA, Japanese balloons, Unit 731, Japanese POWs at Fort Stanton in Lincoln County. Throw it all together in the blender and obviously it points to an explanation for Roswell several years later--deformed survivors of Japanese Unit 731 or POW Japanese Kamikaze pilots being used in Japanese-derived balloon experiments that crash in Lincoln County.<br /><br />You said it yourself. Not only doesn't it prove anything, it has absolutely nothing to do with Roswell. Here's what the document is really about. During WWII the Japanese were sending over balloon fire bombs, but authorities here had some awareness of the Japanese bacteriological warfare group known as Unit 731 in Manchuria. The great fear was that the Japanese would use the same balloons for germ warfare (in fact there were such plans).<br /><br />Thus when some kid in N.M. got the rare plague, there were worries that the Japanese may have indeed started using the balloons in germ warfare.<br /><br />And that's all it is about. Spinning this into some sort of corroboration for your Roswell theories is total nonsense. But you have done that with many other documents as well, documents that have nothing to do with Roswell. <br /><br />E.g., if the aeromedical people were concerned about cosmic ray radiation effects on crews in long-term high-altitude flying, somehow that becomes support for flying an atomic reactor from a high-altitude balloon and exposing human guinea pigs to the radiation.<br /><br />Bunk piled on top of bunk. Nick, you do your best work when you stick to real facts, and don't deal in this super-speculative garbage where you add 2 plus 2 and end up with 13. Dots miles apart don't deserve to be connected.David Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-55777133615387365402010-05-18T04:55:52.604-07:002010-05-18T04:55:52.604-07:00CDA:
Karl Pflock was the first person to use the ...CDA:<br /><br />Karl Pflock was the first person to use the "BS" angle when talking about my "Body Snatchers" book.<br /><br />So, yep: David R goes for the "Bullshit" meaning when talking about "Body Snatchers." I don't - although I do apply it to a great deal of what passes for Ufology.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-82961524634877300252010-05-18T04:54:20.533-07:002010-05-18T04:54:20.533-07:00Starman:
By Stansel's own admission (Stansel ...Starman:<br /><br />By Stansel's own admission (Stansel is the correct spelling), when he gave the initial story to Chetham and Young he was under the influence of four martinis.<br /><br />And: he told them that the object was like a "tear-drop-shaped cigar with flat bottom" not a saucer.<br /><br />A cigar sounds (to me) more like an aircraft fuselage.<br /><br />The saucer description came later on when he gave a somewhat different account to Ray Fowler. In other words: he changed his story.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-8025638187358976392010-05-18T03:59:45.843-07:002010-05-18T03:59:45.843-07:00Stancil wouldn't have confused the drones with...Stancil wouldn't have confused the drones with monkeys for an ET crash--unless he was drunk, in which case he probably wouldn't have ben allowed into the test area, lol. He wasn't some ignorant dope who, unaware of the project, might've mistaken them for a UFO. Maybe drones and monkeys later gave Stancil the idea for a crashed saucer hoax but that sounds silly, because they were superfluous. There have been crash stories in popular literature since Scully's 1950 book.starmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09884942748644499035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-21265535192136530912010-05-18T01:22:03.243-07:002010-05-18T01:22:03.243-07:00To Nick R & David R:
I wonder if the term &qu...To Nick R & David R:<br /><br />I wonder if the term "BS" means the same to both of you.cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-43263155565460470062010-05-17T15:37:32.713-07:002010-05-17T15:37:32.713-07:00David:
We will continue to differ on Roswell, as ...David:<br /><br />We will continue to differ on Roswell, as per the debate we had at UFO Updates years ago. <br /><br />Until (or if) hard evidence for what did or didn't happen at Roswell surfaces, the Ufological field will continue to debate Roswell ad infinitum without any end or agreement in sight.<br /><br />For more on that, see: <br /><br />http://ufocon.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-roswell-will-never-be-solved-by.html<br /><br />As for Keith Basterfield's source: I have spoken with him extensively, as Keith put me in touch with him after the book was published.<br /><br />Keith too had interviewed him extensively.<br /><br />Also: you may not have seen my paper on post-Body Snatchers revelations that surfaced since the book was published in Greg Taylor's "Darklore" anthology.<br /><br />That chapter includes FOIA documents on a young boy who died in Lincoln County in the 40s from a form of plague.<br /><br />The official documents refer to whether his death could have been due to a Japanese balloon and biowar weaponry developed by Unit 731.<br /><br />This is a clear link between not just New Mexico, but Lincoln County, no less and Unit 731. These documents surfaced around 2007/8.<br /><br />The body of the boy was taken to Fort Stanton, where Japanese POWs were held in the war.<br /><br />Does this prove anything? No: just an official, FOIA documented link between Unit 731 and a death in Lincoln County, NM.<br /><br />I will be doing a bigger paper on this in the near future, as there are now more documents on the boy's death, and will be including images of the documents, file numbers etc.<br /><br />In the meantime, the text of the relevant parts of the documents that had surfaced at the time I wrote the Darklore paper, are all in that paper, word-for-word.<br /><br />Yes, the Kingman/crash/monkey story only has one source so far. But she has her father's papers, and work colleagues names and I have those to work with, and more, and will be doing an update on that when I've gone as far as I can.<br /><br />But the fact is that, so far, we can tie "Werner" to Upshot-Knothole; we know that "Werner" talked about a crash and a small body; we have a woman talking about her dad linked to Upshot-Knothole and recovering a crashed vehicle and monkey (small, in other words) bodies (in the same time frame), and - in case you don't know - in the very first contact between "Werner" and the 2 young guys who interviewed him, "Werner" said the object was a classified military experimental vehicle - not a UFO.<br /><br />Again, proves nothing. But, to me, that is all at least suggestive of being worthy of looking into it further.Nick Redfernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07199813303416083671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-1723036448756074672010-05-17T14:59:50.530-07:002010-05-17T14:59:50.530-07:00At 0505 hours on May 19, 1953 an atomic test named...At 0505 hours on May 19, 1953 an atomic test named "Harry" was detonated at Yucca Flats. That single detonation was responsible for 1/3 of the entire gamma exposure caused by these tests.<br /><br />On the night of May 19, 1953 a double murder occurred in the tiny town of Silver Creek Ariz, near Oatman Ariz. The killer/s were never apprehended. Silver Creek is not on the map anymore.<br /><br />I have been gathering information for a fictional novel that ties these two actual events to the Stancil information. Facts here are few and far between. I have interviewed ranchers and others who were living in Kingman at the time and not even one of them remembered anything about a plane crash or similar event in May of 1953. <br /><br />Information about the 'monkeys' is new to me, thank you for that.Johnnyseanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215902829134161335noreply@blogger.com