Friday, April 16, 2021

X-Zone Broadcast Network - John Greenewald vs Tony Bragalia


This week we had a special edition of A Different Perspective with guests Tony Bragalia and John Greenewald. The idea to discuss Tony’s claim that the Pentagon had confirmed they were in possession of alien debris and that they were conducting reverse engineering on it. We began with Tony describing what he had discovered through his FOIA campaign directed at various government agencies. You can listen to the first part of the program here.

John did present his side of this conversation as well, explaining, again how the FOIA worked and that sometimes the material sent was not necessarily what had been requested. He was of the opinion that what was addressed in the email didn’t necessarily relate to the specific request. The FOIA officers attempted to fulfill the request in compliance with the law.

John Greenewald
Tony mentioned a connection between his investigation into Nitinol metal and Titanium. He mentioned that General Exon had talked about the ultra-high purity of Titanium. I said that I didn’t remember General Exon saying anything about Titanium in my interviews with him and I asked for the citation. Tony didn’t have it at his figure tips but promised to send it to me later.

You can listen to the exchange on the first part of the program. It begins at 24:32 minutes in the show. Tony said, “…he told you, on tape, that he understood that some of the [Roswell] wreckage being tested was comprised in part by special processed Titanium, so we begin to examine specially processed Titanium in these documents…”

I said, “I do not remember Exon saying anything about the Titanium.”

Tony said, “It’s in your book and I will cite and send it to you…It’s in your books… you certainly did talk about Titanium and Arthur Exon and his mention of specially processed Titanium.”

Tony did send a citation. The reference came from my book Roswell UFO Crash Update and Tom Carey and Don Schmitt’s Witness to Roswell. The information originated in Don’s interview with Exon in June 1990. It said:

I don’t know, at that time, if it was Titanium or some other metal… or if it was something they knew about and the processing was something different.

Tony has taken that single, rather unimportant reference to Titanium as the possible metal recovered and turned it into a positive identification of the metal from Roswell being Titanium. So, in one way, Tony was right. Exon did mention Titanium but in the long haul, it is not as important as Tony has made it out to be. It wasn’t a positive identification of Titanium, and there was no mention of any sort of processing related to the Titanium. Exon did talk about special handling of the debris but it wasn’t necessarily related to Titanium as Tony suggested.

Arthur Exon. Photo by
Tom Carey.

Lewis Rickett, who had been the NCOIC of the Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) office in Roswell, handled some of the debris and said it reminded him of Cold Rolled Steel. He also pointed out that it was very light weight and very strong. I mention this only to point out that those who actually handed the metal had different opinions of it. General Exon never handled the debris, a point that Tony has overlooked. This sort of thing will become important in the second hour of the show.

It was in the second hour that things became somewhat acrimonious. You can listen to that portion of the show here:

I brought up the problem with Tony’s analysis of the Dr. Herbert Dick interviews that dealt with the situation on the Plains of San Agustin in July 1947. You can read about that in detail in the following posting. I believed it had some relevance in the way Tony had described the situation and as the one who actually interviewed Dr. Dick, I believed that I had a better handle on it. The discussion related to Tony’s misunderstanding of what Dr. Dick had said and his, Tony’s, somewhat over the top description of what he believed had happened.

It was here, as I was attempting to explain the significance of Tony’s analysis of Dr. Dick’s statements that Tony kept interrupting me. I told him he would understand if he would just let me finish. Finally, annoyed with his constant interruptions, I told him to “Shut up.” Not exactly the most professional way to handle this, but I had sent him what I thought of as the rules for this discussion. One of them those rules was not to interrupt because I would provide an opportunity to respond later. He just hung up.

In our email exchange that followed, I provided additional information about Dr. Dick and my interview with him. Dr. Dick told me that he arrived on the Plains in July 1947. He didn’t think it was in the first week, which was the critical time. Later, Art Campbell found documents that put him on the Plains on July 1. Tony had written that Dr. Dick had categorically denied he had been there in July and Campbell’s discovery proved that he had. Of course, Dick never denied he had been there, only that he wasn’t there at the very beginning of the month.

Tony later wrote in an email that he had been right about Dr. Dick and that I knew it. I was the one who talked to Dr. Dick, I knew what he had said, and there was never any question about him being on the Plains in July 1947. The question was about when he arrived. Putting him there on July 1, was a blow to those who accepted the Plains San Agustin crash.

Don Schmitt on the Plains of San Agustin. Photo by Kevin Randle.

With Tony gone, John and I completed the show. In the last segment of the show, I mentioned that John had just written about a Pentagon release of more video. We discussed the implications there, along with what it meant to the UFO report due to Congress in July, and the possibility that some of these sightings were drones.

We also, briefly, touched on the Roswell Slides. Tony had been a vocal advocate of the validity of the slides. Once the slides were available to the public, the image on the slides was quickly identified. It is just another example of Tony’s advocacy for a position that isn’t as solid as it could be.

Next week is the second part of the show, which is available now through the embedded audio player or by using the links above.


Louis Nicholson said...

When you first announced these shows, I knew they were going be "very interesting" given Mr. Bragalia's personality. LOL. While it was certainly over the line, I understood your frustration with Mr. Bragalia which led you to telling him to "shut up." However, you were big enough to publicly apologize for the remark more than once. Has Mr. Bragalia apologized for his conduct? I listen to all of Mr. Greenwald's interviews. He is always very good, knowledgeable and sensible; a potent voice in the UFO field.

KRandle said...

Louis -

I had warned him. Prior to the show I sent both John Greenewald and Tony Bragalia some rules, one of which was not to interrupt. I would provide ample time for rebuttal. I also warned him, during that exchange that I didn't want to "mute him."

However, I would also note that his behavior was over the line as well. He claimed he didn't know what I was talking about but was able to make comments anyway. BTW, I got a copy of Dick's letter from Art Campbell, as well as a copy of his book.

Had he had the patience to listen (the Lakota would say, "He has no ears." Is mentioning that cultural appropriation?), he would have understood the relevance. Although I had no reason to avoid the Roswell Slides tale, I had told him, when he appeared a few weeks ago that I wouldn't bring it up, that didn't apply here. But I kept to that until he just hung up.

Wm. said...

After listening to Mr. Bragalia on Johns Black Vault interview on youtube, I would be more than skeptical if Mr. Bragalia recommended any CEO candidate to me.

Lance said...

Enjoyed talking with you, Kevin, hope we can do that again soon.

I listened to both parts of this. How predictable that the man who helped bring us the Roswell slides acted like a child the entire time. The guy is such a terrible thinker. Everything he says is cartoonishly unjustified and muddled (and hilariously wrapped in a pompous pedantic style).

John was just incredibly impressive. How often have I said that about a UFO proponent?



Moonman said...

Mr. Bragalia needs to take one word to heart: humility. How Mr. Randle and Mr. Greenewald could put up with Bragalia's obnoxiousness (or is it annoyingness?) is beyond my understanding. Maybe we should be more liberal in our assessment of this behavior since there is always the possibility he might have Asperger's. The calm, reasonable, if repetitive voice of Greenewald was a calming balm to my ears. Randle was somewhat crusty, but I was sympathetic.

The problem is that Mr. Bragalia seems to like to threaten a lot with lawsuits. I seem to recall this happening a lot with the Roswell slides. If he thinks we will just shrug that fiasco off since he made a donation to some museum or something and it have no impact on our assessment of his creditability, he is wrong. I seem to recall he was always trying to cut off discussion or review of the slides. And if you disagreed with him, heaven forbid, you would not be treated politely. Likely he would portray this as a gutsy, alpha male approach that gets results quick.

Humility, instead of some form of cancel culture, would be a nice improvement him to consider.

But let's be serious. FOIA is not going to give anyone something to answer the UFO question. Just more tidbits. Do you think the Government is stupid? FOIA reports can say UFOs or UAPs, it doesn't matter. It is always nondefinitive.

To Wm.: Funny.

Lemurian said...

Aztec UFO Crash: Yes It Happened: