tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post216486871671485820..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: The Decline and Fall of UfologyKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-74622287942455106282015-11-01T05:54:07.992-08:002015-11-01T05:54:07.992-08:00I was the Kingman City Attorney for a few years in...I was the Kingman City Attorney for a few years in the 1990-era. I got to know many of the old-timers, including the prominent family that had owned much of the land in the area for decades. In my nosing around, I never located anyone who had ever even heard of the "Kingman crash."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-86697215762335538962015-10-21T08:52:26.879-07:002015-10-21T08:52:26.879-07:00@Nightshade09,
While I agree with your 'let it...@Nightshade09,<br />While I agree with your 'let it die' opinion, I must point out a flaw in your 'Fox Mulder' metaphor. Mulder was driven by strong personal desire* to get the facts; so strong that he often risked his badge in the process. Fame was not his motivation. The Not Roswell Slides fiasco was pure Huckersterism, driven sole by desire for publicity and money. There are some folks in serious research, and some in it for the money. Jaime Maussan might be a better metaphor.<br />.<br />If the baby needs to be thrown out with the bathwater, so be it, but the hucksters, like the poor, will always be with us...<br /><br />Cheers, <br />..............<br />* his sisters abduction.<br />. .. . .. _ _ _alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-43142183136899480552015-10-20T17:24:18.614-07:002015-10-20T17:24:18.614-07:00Ufology is in decline for one reason and one reaso...Ufology is in decline for one reason and one reason only and that’s because everyone is fixated on being like the fictional Fox Mulder out to bust ‘The Cover Up’ wide open and thus make name for themselves. <br /><br />They have forgotten what Ufology started out to be and that was to document the phenomena to gather enough creditable scientifically gathered evidence of the on going phenomena in order to force the mainstream science and media to take the phenomena under serious investigation.<br /><br />Instead what we have today is whole bunch of Fox Mulder wanna be’s with an endless parade of so called ‘Smoking Gun’ so called evidence.. The so called “Roswell Slides” just the latest manifestation.. <br /><br />The decline is a good thing in my opinion. Let the whole baby collapse! Let everyone lose interest and go on other new agey / conspiracy chasing .. <br /><br />Then out of ashes Ufology will return its roots. To NICAP, To APRO, To Early MUFON.. <br />Nightshade09https://www.blogger.com/profile/07538809032510393716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-58082061807849080172015-10-18T12:39:53.591-07:002015-10-18T12:39:53.591-07:00@Brice,
LEDs would work. All you need are the wave...@Brice,<br />LEDs would work. All you need are the wavelength specs of the LED you're using. Mercury and sodium vapor lamps are excellent for calibration as they give very specific lines. Also try various colors of 'neon' signs. Here's a link that's good for an overview:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscope<br /><br />See the photos at the page bottom for the use of slits. The Web is full of DIY spectrographs. Yes, star-sized objects might be hard to work with, but they would be very difficult to identify anyway:)<br /><br />Good luck!<br />. .. . .. _ _ _<br />alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-25589271657498620232015-10-18T02:37:36.639-07:002015-10-18T02:37:36.639-07:00Wow, really cda? I had to comment because the igno...Wow, really cda? I had to comment because the ignorance here is laughable. <br /><br />NGA is what they call NIMA nowadays. They make maps. They report to the DNI. They're funded by the DoD. <br /><br />Its nothing too special really. NRO launches and operates the satellites and NGA makes maps out of the images so people like myself and Captain Randle don't go waltzing into a heavily defended marsh that was dry a week ago before the enemy flooded it. Arguably NRO should take over NGA so taskings stay centralized, but it sort of works how it is. <br /><br />I hate to inject reality into delusions but someone had to say something. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-23916063118735621062015-10-17T16:02:54.342-07:002015-10-17T16:02:54.342-07:00@albert: indeed, now I think you don't need on...@albert: indeed, now I think you don't need one if the light (ufo) is small (ie far) enough, which should be the most common case, just make sure the zoom is set to the minimum. That would be useful if the source of light remains big despite zooming out. Public mercury and sodium lights are very common in my area so they're indeed perfect. I think lasers would work as they are monochromatic, I don't know for leds.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-89372040645792661922015-10-17T09:04:51.739-07:002015-10-17T09:04:51.739-07:00@Brice,
The idea of a slit is impose sharply defin...@Brice,<br />The idea of a slit is impose sharply defined edges to the image. Spectra from large sources tend to blur and become difficult to analyze. Try it. You can make with 2 safety edge razor blades. Use a black marker to dull the shiny edges. You'll have to experiment to find the optimum distance between the slit and the grating. The whole setup needs to be shielded from ambient light. Be sure you can get (from white light) the whole spectrum from red to violet on your spectrograph. Depending on the kind street lights you have in your area, you can get sodium or mercury lines on your spectrograph. You can do a calibration of your system this way. I don't know if LEDs or lasers can be used for calibration.<br />. .. . .. _ _ _<br />alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-46213930222768594612015-10-16T15:42:51.354-07:002015-10-16T15:42:51.354-07:00@albert : indeed it would. Thanks for your link, a...@albert : indeed it would. Thanks for your link, actually I'm already equipped with diffraction gratings that I can insert on a filter support which I can stick magnetically on the lens of my camera. It's very easy, you don't need a slit (not so sure what you meant by this), just to “plug” the whole stuff onto the lens before taking the picture/film (but you also need to take another picture of calibrating light with the same zoom setting). You can do the same with a smartphone, but since I don't have one I haven't tried yet. Not sure either I would like to have always with me the diffraction kit, but at least I have it at home so that I can put it on my camera.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-21914459158015920432015-10-15T12:37:21.642-07:002015-10-15T12:37:21.642-07:00@Brice,
That would be a useful adjunct to the iPho...@Brice,<br />That would be a useful adjunct to the iPhone/Theodolite combination, since only the spectrum need be recorded; I/T handles the rest. If you have a capable camera (preferable a cell phone), you could try a diffraction grating (edmundoptics.com has 'em). You'll probably need a slit of some kind to make analysis possible. This might be difficult to accomplish on a cell, as the lens is so small, but would certainly be possible on a digital camera with a decent lens.<br />. .. . .. _ _ _<br />alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-35354051350193996332015-10-15T09:53:22.761-07:002015-10-15T09:53:22.761-07:00Wow! We have to debate the existence of a real go...Wow! We have to debate the existence of a real government agency, Geo-Spatial Intelligence Agency, instead of any actual arguments about UFOs. Too bad my friend who didn't believe in the existence of North Dakota or China (he had never been to either) died a few years back, he'd fit right in.<br />I'd like cda to answer the question I posed before: who is in a better position to access UFO data, me(standing in for all private citizens) or The Geo-Spatial Intelligence Agency.<br /><br />Aandycherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09485060656790829937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-91808616858459589582015-10-15T05:03:11.568-07:002015-10-15T05:03:11.568-07:00Erol ffaruk said :
"There is still soil mate...Erol ffaruk said : <br />"There is still soil material available for a modern laboratory to analyse if the interest (and funding?) was there". <br /><br />That's very good news.<br /><br />"This wouldn't apply to the vast majority of other UFO trace cases since they very rarely involve a deposited substance!"<br /><br />Indeed, it's another subject of study well worth pursuing. I know that in France, the GEIPAN used to call at least one scientist (Michel Bounias) to analyse some vegetation samples in some instances where UFOs left physical traces.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-58903995283437558912015-10-15T04:52:32.668-07:002015-10-15T04:52:32.668-07:00@albert : I don't know about IR spectroscopy, ...@albert : I don't know about IR spectroscopy, not so sure about it since every object radiate in this bandwith according to its temperature... Now you can easily record the spectrum in the visible bandwith of a light with a camera just by interposing a diffraction grating onto the lens. You just need a filter support in which you insert the diffraction grating (you can certainly have both for less than 50$). Some exist for compact (magnetic) or for reflex cameras...If you're a handyman you can even build a support for a smartphone and record the spectrum in the same way. That may give some very interesting/useful data with an almost insignificant equipement/cost.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-27509687062435935042015-10-15T04:47:01.901-07:002015-10-15T04:47:01.901-07:00@Brice - Yes, Ted was involved as he was the main ...@Brice - Yes, Ted was involved as he was the main investigator on-site. The case is still highly significant even though quite old now, since both myself and Phyllis Budinger in the States analysed the ring soil thoroughly and confirmed its impregnation with an unusual organic compound. There is still soil material available for a modern laboratory to analyse if the interest (and funding?) was there. So the prospect of unambiguously determining if a UFO was involved is high in this instance. This wouldn't apply to the vast majority of other UFO trace cases since they very rarely involve a deposited substance!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11047725466615519620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-91644070983948479022015-10-14T08:33:15.710-07:002015-10-14T08:33:15.710-07:00@Brice,
You're talking about spectroscopy. iPh...@Brice,<br />You're talking about spectroscopy. iPhones can't do that...yet:)<br />Most video chips are IR sensitive, and need filters to screen it out. IR would be cool to have. <br /><br />By all means review the Theodolite specs.<br />. .. . .. _ _ _ alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-41665077563040487432015-10-14T06:08:38.060-07:002015-10-14T06:08:38.060-07:00@albert : I'm not sure wether in mentioning &q...@albert : I'm not sure wether in mentioning "RGB information" you were relating to the acquisition of a light's sprectrum. To be more precise, I was talking about the decomposition of the light source in its wavelengths. You can get it with a diffraction grating and with proper calibration may obtain other useful informations (nature/chemical composition of the light's source, presence of a magnetic field, temperature...). In the 50's the USAF was already promoving the acquisition of this spectrum. <br /><br />Looking quickly at the geocam app, it can give enough data (angles and geolocation) to carry out a triangulation. I didn't look in detail of the Teodolite app's features. Did you mean that this app has a lot more than geocam and/or it has other features that would be useful for our purpose (ufos) ? if so which ones?<br /><br />@Erol Faruk : thank you for the link! I'll check up on it. I wasn't aware at all you wrote a recent book on this case as I seem to recall it is quite an "old" case now. I'm not sure but I may remember Ted Philips was interested/involved in it at some point, but I may be wrong with this. <br /><br />Regarding Roswell and even if it lacks physical evidence, it somehow bears many interesting documentational/testimonial evidence (and still even some interesting leads) which to me make it interesting and still worthwhile to look onto.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-2825285992971895682015-10-14T01:57:02.636-07:002015-10-14T01:57:02.636-07:00To those seeking physical evidence for UFOs you ca...To those seeking physical evidence for UFOs you cannot better the Delphos case in my opinion. I happen to be a 'serious scientist' who has actually analysed the ring soil in a university laboratory and concluded that the case is quite genuine and corroborates fully the testimony of its lead witness (Ronald Johnson) as well as those of his parents who also observed the UFO and touched the ring surface shortly after it departed. More information on my findings can be found at this link:<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Compelling-Scientific-Evidence-UFOs-Analysis/dp/150271552X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444811222&sr=8-1&keywords=delphos<br /><br />Rather than ponder the stale Roswell mystery, critical thinkers could more usefully apply their logic at probing the validity of Delphos and its potential to lead ufology out of its current quagmire.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11047725466615519620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-63511331528818267212015-10-13T11:43:49.354-07:002015-10-13T11:43:49.354-07:00@Brice,
Such data would be orders of magnitude bet...@Brice,<br />Such data would be orders of magnitude better than anything else available to most citizens:) Also, location data can be correlated with radar data. Distance travelled over time can easily be determined, hence speed. If a speed of 1500 mph is calculated, it would be clear that despite accuracy, an object was travelling very fast, and, if soundless, it's clear that we don't have anything that can do that. RGB information can easily be determined from camera images. <br /><br />These systems can finally quantify what witness testimony could only have guessed before.<br /><br />The Android app doesn't even come close to the Theodolite iPhone one.<br /><br />. .. . .. _ _ _<br /><br />alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-5592375811212824072015-10-12T02:39:22.169-07:002015-10-12T02:39:22.169-07:00@albert
Thanks for the info. :-) In essence, you w...@albert<br />Thanks for the info. :-) In essence, you would be able to triangulate an object with only 2 recordings of the object from 2 different locations, provided items in the backgroung of the recordings(eg landscape, buildings...) would allow you to know the azimuth and height angle of the object, allowing to estimate distance, size and even speed and acceleration if a synchronicity between the two recordings can accurately be found. IMO, the bonus with this app is that you would already have these data (angles) along with the geolocation of the place of the recording, making it easier to do the triangulation. Moreover, these data would still be available to some extent if the recordings would lack reference points in the backgroung, for example if made at night or above sea horizon. There is also the same application for android systems : http://www.androidauthority.com/geocam-app-review-105929/.<br /><br />It still could'nt be considered scientific data but it sure would give a lot more credence if associated with witness testimonies. A french UFO association named UFO Science (www.ufo-science.com) is currently working toward the conception of a miniature automatic detection station that could also get the spectrum of lights -for more data, one that would be easy to install and not too costly and so that it could be purchased by people interested to set up this kind of equipment. more info here (sorry in french):<br /><br />http://www.ufo-science.com/wpf/?p=9060<br />http://www.ufo-science.com/wpf/?p=9251Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-42816740837790482112015-10-11T14:45:19.587-07:002015-10-11T14:45:19.587-07:00@Brice,
I don't recall posting anything here o...@Brice,<br />I don't recall posting anything here on this (I have elsewhere), but check out: <br /><br />http://hunter.pairsite.com/theodolite/<br /><br />This iPhone app would be perfect for UFO research. With 2 or more units, quite accurate speed, altitude and location calculations can be made. There are millions of iPhones out there already. The only problem is getting folks involved.<br /><br />My usual disclaimer applies.<br /><br />. .. . .. _ _ _alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-4310899700255029232015-10-11T08:33:51.740-07:002015-10-11T08:33:51.740-07:00@albert:
I believe it is at least possible set up ...@albert:<br />I believe it is at least possible set up some automatic detection/measurement devices on specific locations without the need to manage them full time (a bit like what was done in Hessdalen). You could also have volunteered scientists called when something got caught or to investigate a specific case with physical traces. Of course you would need volunteers and competence and it wouldn't be costless but I believe it is possible in some extent, provided funds and personnel could be found. The big issue is about chance to get something really interesting with enough robust data. Would it be impossible to find scientists that wouldn't want to participate in such a project without the requirement of anonymity? I'm not sure, but certainly being associated with the subject of ufos may refrain many to participate even if personally interested. At one point, there was some of this idea with a team of scientists willing to investigate rapidly some cases under a partnership between MUFON and Bigelow, but I think it didn't last because MUFON wasn't happy with Bigelow's demands (don't know much about it)Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-47632001096715558772015-10-10T09:03:42.768-07:002015-10-10T09:03:42.768-07:00@Brice,
Although I agree with your proposal, I dou...@Brice,<br />Although I agree with your proposal, I doubt such a project could be handled properly. Serious scientists would -not- involve themselves, unless, perhaps, they could remain anonymous. Even so, who can guarantee anonymity today? If any information about such a project became public, the project would die quickly, and the nutters would flood the media with the usual BS. Since UFOs don't come when you call 'em, data collection would require a vast network of researchers, each of whom needs to be vetted. Expensive equipment and thousands of man-hours will be needed to acquire data. You see why a military/intelligence organization is so much better equipped to handle such a survey:) <br />.<br />Scientists have been -no help- at all in regards to the UFO phenomenon. This isn't likely to change in the future.<br />.<br />. .. . .. _ _ _alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15547680170328747214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-22980350501897841102015-10-10T04:27:31.471-07:002015-10-10T04:27:31.471-07:00I feel the fall of ufology somehow already began i...I feel the fall of ufology somehow already began in the late 60's when the renowned scientist James Mac Donald failed to bring the scientific community to undertake a serious study of the phenomenon (let's forget the Condon study joke), despite his tremendous efforts.<br /><br />Along with the disinterest of the scientific community, the primary study of cases by ufologists moved in many other “muddy” areas like trying to obtain information through classified documents by FOIA or citizens initiative, the increase of abduction and crash stories... With the amounts of hoaxes, frauds, liars, debunkers, disinformation, (etc...) today, it seems that UFO reasearchers are now giving away their time trying to sort out valuable informations through an increasing mass of crap.<br /><br />Beside, some seems to have thrown the towel or just focus on sideways issues which might be interesting in themselves (disinformation operations,...) but ultimately don't really help to understand what ufos are while others are more speculating on exotic theories...<br /><br />I feel ufology needs to come back to more grounded and solid scientific research, maybe first through private groups or organizations with the collaboration of scientists interested in the phenomenon, if public organizations can't get involved at this time. Until more grounded evidence could be put forward to get an official and real scientific study initiated, I'm afraid ufology might remained stuck in this actual state for some indefinite time.Bricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15256342379584886357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-27768938274956603482015-10-09T18:28:38.974-07:002015-10-09T18:28:38.974-07:00Blogger Don Maor said...
Bruce said:
&qu...Blogger Don Maor said...<br /><br /> Bruce said:<br /><br /> "That the SOM-1 -- a document supposedly from 1954 -- references satellites when the first satellite was not launched until 1957 is enough proof to disregard the document as genuine."<br /><br /> Bruce, whithin the SOM1-01 document, there is a control page that indicates that the very page that contained the wording "downed satellites" was revised in the document in August 1955, which a date very close, and a little later, than the time when the USA started their project on satellites. So the situation is not an anachronism, it is more like a synchronism (!).<br /><br /> This is the conclusion of an article by Larry Lemke inside the website of Brian and Robert Wood. http://www.specialoperationsmanual.com/<br /> However, the website was aparently hacked by third parties, because any web browser software strongly advices and even denies access to the website. Call me a conspiracist, but the website started having this kind of problems just a little bit later than the article by Lemke was posted.Don Maorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09501920515893210306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-42774588264189466412015-10-09T18:27:02.890-07:002015-10-09T18:27:02.890-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Don Maorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09501920515893210306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-11108091969003464232015-10-09T15:23:48.832-07:002015-10-09T15:23:48.832-07:00Bruce -
The SOM 1-01 is a hoax and not disinforma...Bruce -<br /><br />The SOM 1-01 is a hoax and not disinformation. The fall back position on these things seem to be that if it is not authentic, then it must have been created by someone with inside knowledge as disinformation. There is nothing in the manual that wasn't floating around the world of the UFO in the mid-1990s when the thing appeared.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.com