tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post4221212339723800714..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: Jim Ragsdale's Roswell TaleKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-31657134484259052552018-07-17T07:26:30.937-07:002018-07-17T07:26:30.937-07:00Dude, Ragsdale was a drunk trespasser with a weak ...Dude, Ragsdale was a drunk trespasser with a weak flashlight, according to his early claims. He wouldn't have known a spacecraft from a Sherman tank. Ridiculous to ever consider him a significant credible witness, regardless of inconsistencies.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09971677787437241130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-15982998805951252212017-06-22T16:15:54.401-07:002017-06-22T16:15:54.401-07:00I was just curious because one book covering this ...I was just curious because one book covering this subject made the claim that she "confirmed" his story. So I've always been curious if she was ever interviewed on this.09rjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14354154308391968845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-3586502232066599712017-06-22T16:01:31.734-07:002017-06-22T16:01:31.734-07:00It doesn't matter... Ragsdale made up the stor...It doesn't matter... Ragsdale made up the story of his involvement. He said that he was there with Trudy but she had been killed in a car wreck... There was a real family, and Trudy's sister was the one who was killed. There is no evidence that Trudy had been anywhere with Ragsdale to see a UFO crash, no evidence that Ragsdale saw one, so all this is now moot.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-84584660292790759672017-06-22T15:38:30.515-07:002017-06-22T15:38:30.515-07:00I'm confused. Ragsdale said it was Trudy who w...I'm confused. Ragsdale said it was Trudy who was killed in the car wreck (a few years after the Roswell event).....so it turns out it was her sister? So did anyone ever speak with Trudy? If so, what (if anything) did she say about Jim?09rjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14354154308391968845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-78995373579829631122017-06-22T15:22:20.042-07:002017-06-22T15:22:20.042-07:00There is, was, a family named Truelove. Trudy was ...There is, was, a family named Truelove. Trudy was not killed in an automobile accident, that was her sister. The name was not a pseudonym, but the name supplied by Ragsdale, and the family was from Carlsbad... and I certainly don't understand the point now... so long after we've shown the Rasdale information to be bogus. KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-10996893081592516102017-06-22T13:16:39.281-07:002017-06-22T13:16:39.281-07:00I think (obviously) the Ragsdale story is false......I think (obviously) the Ragsdale story is false.....but a question I have always had is: has anyone ever confirmed this "Trudy Truelove" even existed? Wasn't this name a pseudonym assumed by Roswell authors? Even the debunker books I have read take it at face value that she existed.09rjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14354154308391968845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-2126283495696919072015-05-04T21:57:41.394-07:002015-05-04T21:57:41.394-07:00> But Ragsdale said that the debris was stolen....> But Ragsdale said that the debris was stolen.<br /><br />"missing evidence" seems to be the most common kind of physical evidence for UFOs (yet I never see a "missing evidence" entry in any UFO book index).<br /><br />Kevin, I really enjoy these type of posts, where you show the timeline of a witness' testimony. Too many researchers pretend that later (better!) versions where always there from the beginning.<br /><br />I appreciate you trying to be an honest broker of UFO information.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-84231183778495476672015-04-30T07:12:29.307-07:002015-04-30T07:12:29.307-07:00Kevin -
The question may "bore you" bu...Kevin - <br /><br />The question may "bore you" but perhaps not someone new to this blog or the potentially many silent readers to these conversations.<br /><br />Since you are now willing to confirm that what I originally stated was in fact true, that the first book you published had the drawings incorrectly attributed, you might've said that upfront to begin with instead of drawing attention away from it and simply using sarcasm and criticism as a way to misdirect readers' attention.<br /><br />You might've simply said "....yes Pflock had it right on that episode. Originally we believed the drawings were made by Dennis himself. Unfortunately he lied, just like Ragsdale. We didn't discover that until later, so we made amends with Fenn and corrected the error". <br /><br />That would have sufficed since we all know researchers in this subject area often encounter so called witnesses who exaggerate or even lie. Instead we get comments like "I have the latest edition in front of me and I don't see anything that proves what you're saying is correct".<br /><br />The subject is not trivial to Roswell, because many people incorrectly believe that Dennis had personally drawn those sketches and that they depict real aliens.<br /><br />There are many people who still claim that Dennis was in fact a truthful eye witness, and use those drawings as evidence for not only the defense of a fictitious nurse, but also for Dennis's "factual" account.<br /><br />Those drawings are circulated as evidence that so called "witnesses", including Ragsdale, might actually be right and somehow there's a grand conspiracy on the part of the military to hide the truth about dead or living aliens.<br /><br />On the subject of Ragsdale, had he even had at any point in time a real physical and psychological evaluation, which I highly doubt ever occurred, it may have born evidence that the man suffered from some sort of mental illness which precipitated a habit of extreme exaggeration. To that point, just because he told people about a crashed saucer and dead aliens long before researchers came along doesn't mean what he was saying was truthful. <br /><br />He could've drawn information from many sources long before the 1970s, and not until UFO researchers came on-site did he decide to play his hand at "whooping it up" even more.Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-28314823540735512752015-04-29T08:51:12.792-07:002015-04-29T08:51:12.792-07:00Brian -
You begin to bore me. Yes, originally the...Brian -<br /><br />You begin to bore me. Yes, originally the drawings were published giving credit to Glenn Dennis... Have you bothered Stan Friedman with this trivia? He gave credit to Glenn Davis, whoever that might be.<br /><br />Once Walter Henn raised the issue, I had the caption in the UFO Crash at Roswell changed to reflect Walter Henn's contribution. Henn's drawings do not appear in The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell. In 1991, we published what Glenn Dennis told us... that he had made the drawings... and as soon as we had the opportunity, we corrected the error.<br /><br />Karl had the opportunity to talk with me about this, he could have looked at the updated version of UFO Crash at Roswell and he could have told Henn that the second book to give credit to Dennis was Friedman's.<br /><br />And because his book was published four years later, he had the opportunity to get the facts right.<br /><br />And now we return to the Jim Ragsdale tale, which was the subject of this post.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-1898043061883901012015-04-29T00:15:19.164-07:002015-04-29T00:15:19.164-07:00Kevin -
So nice of you to once again avoid the o...Kevin - <br /><br />So nice of you to once again avoid the obvious with sarcasm as your response.<br /><br />The Dennis drawings were first published in the 1991 edition of UFO Crash at Roswell where the credit was given to Dennis, not Henn, which is what Pflock accurately reported based on Fenn's complaint that the drawings were published by YOU as quote "drawings by Glenn Dennis...based on the actual drawings done...by the nurse". <br /><br />You are referring to your 1997 The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell...and of course you have a letter from Fenn - because you or your publisher amended the attribute in the 1997 revised edition. Just because Pflock's book was published four years later doesn't mean his research was done in 2001.<br /><br />His data comes from his interview with Fenn in 1995 - four years AFTER your first book was published. Nice try. No wonder Pflock subtiitled his book "inconvenient facts".,..Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-44090023003894907392015-04-28T09:23:11.743-07:002015-04-28T09:23:11.743-07:00Kevin,
Regarding Glenn Dennis, I guess we’ll have...Kevin,<br /><br />Regarding Glenn Dennis, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Clearly he lied about the name of the nurse he said he had a relationship with and who told him of an alien autopsy. I disagree completely that clearly there was no nurse nor any truth to any part of his story.<br /><br />Yes, Carey and Schmitt wrote in their book that Dennis impeached himself by lying about the name of the nurse. But they have told me privately they believe there is a core truth to his story, and so do I. Let’s briefly look at the story:<br /><br />1. Did Nurse X exist? You yourself have written that you believe an autopsy was conducted at the base hospital which might very well have involved a nurse or two. There is testimony from others about nurses/medical personnel knowing of the bodies (e.g., Ruben and Pete Anaya base hangar/Montoya story, giving a similar physical description of the nurse) and/or autopsy (e.g. Milton Sprouse) or seeing the bodies being worked on by doctors at the base hospital (Eleazar Benavides; family of Miriam bush) or in the base hangar (Montoya story to the Anayas), all elements of Dennis’s Nurse X story. The horrible stench of the alien bodies has also been mentioned by Benavides, Frank Joyce (what Brazel told him coming to town), and widow of Sgt. Leroy Wallace, <br /><br />2. Would Dennis possibly have known Nurse X? Since he handled mortuary arrangements for the base and was frequently on the base, likely he would have known some nurses and other medical personnel, including Miriam Bush, secretary, who told family of seeing the bodies being worked on at the base hospital. More importantly, at least two witnesses mention they knew of Dennis having some involvement of one of the nurses there, specifically Eileen Fanton, who fit the physical description and Catholic background of Nurse X to a T, was transferred off the base weeks later, and served a tour of duty in England afterward, all elements of Glenn’s story. She didn’t die, as per Dennis’ story, but Dennis also said he didn’t knew for sure if she did or not. That is what he was told. Clearly Dennis did know well one of the nurses (Fanton) and at least had a friendship with her, and she very well could have assisted in an autopsy or known of the bodies (as per the Anaya story).<br /><br />3. The base child casket call and questions about body preservation. Perhaps the best-corroborated part of the Dennis story, multiple witnesses say Dennis was talking about it in the days following or within a few years. He clearly didn’t dream it up 40+ years later after reading an article in the Roswell Daily Record. There is additional corroboration from several other witnesses found by Carey/Schmitt of the mortuary in nearby Hagerman supplying the child caskets since they had them on hand, vs. Dennis’ story of having only one and telling the base caller it would take several days to order more, a good reason for the base to go elsewhere. This is all very consistent. Dennis was also telling parts of the story to close family in the early 1980s before Stan Friedman found him in 1989 and before the big flurry of Roswell books in the 1990s.<br /><br />4. Recommending ice for preservation. Testimony exists of the town being cleaned out of ice and dry ice by the military (e.g., Rogene Cordes) and the aliens being packed in ice (Pappy Henderson family, such as Sappho Henderson saying her husband told her they were packed in dry ice, Melvin Brown story). Not real strong line of evidence, but certainly consistent with Dennis’ story.<br /><br />5. His father and Sheriff Wilcox being close friends, and Wilcox telling the father his son should keep his mouth shut. Consistent with others saying Wilcox warned them to stay quiet (e.g. the Anayas). Others confirm Wilcox/father were friends. Glenn Dennis’ fraternal twin Bob told friend John Price that Wilcox did indeed come to the house and warn his father. The story of what happened was told to him by his father when he came home from the service.<br /><br />I would say it is far from clear that Dennis made the whole thing up.David Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-66946715488088731792015-04-27T17:14:37.464-07:002015-04-27T17:14:37.464-07:00Brian -
Hate to say the same thing but can you re...Brian -<br /><br />Hate to say the same thing but can you read? I said that it was in the update version of the book. The last version of the book was updated in 1997 or four years before Karl published his book. Naturally my correspondence with Henn is dated prior to that.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-60440393590024930962015-04-27T15:25:01.251-07:002015-04-27T15:25:01.251-07:00Hate to ask it, but what publication date is the v...Hate to ask it, but what publication date is the version you're looking at? Pflock and Henn claimed it wasn't so in first editions. Perhaps then it was corrected later. Just asking.Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-76888364534000068032015-04-27T14:31:53.298-07:002015-04-27T14:31:53.298-07:00Looked at my book, saw Henn was credited as having...Looked at my book, saw Henn was credited as having made the drawing... have a letter from him about this and my response to him so I don't need to look at Pflock's book... found Pflock was busy taking potshots at me and failing to hit the target every time. And yes, I already know about Kaufmann and Ragsdale so it is not necessary to mention them. <br /><br />Did you read what I wrote? Do you think I would have said that if I couldn't produce a copy of the book with the credit line in it? KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-70379047531715226562015-04-27T12:16:23.923-07:002015-04-27T12:16:23.923-07:00Not according to Henn in a verbatim interview he g...Not according to Henn in a verbatim interview he gave to Pflock. Check your sources.Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-30450162111835514482015-04-27T09:32:19.553-07:002015-04-27T09:32:19.553-07:00Brian -
Do you enjoy being wrong? Walter Henn is ...Brian -<br /><br />Do you enjoy being wrong? Walter Henn is the artist and he was given credit in the update version of Don Schmitt's and my first Roswell book.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-63591387902792571402015-04-27T08:53:32.117-07:002015-04-27T08:53:32.117-07:00Most everyone involved with interviewing Dennis ha...Most everyone involved with interviewing Dennis have since reported that he was clearly playing one researcher against another while dodging the truth. his story evolvd as he saw fit based on how his interviews unfolded. <br /><br />He was caught numerous times recanting aspects of his own testimony and then selling it again to someone else or in some public setting, or claiming he "couldn't recall what he said".<br /><br />Don't forget the alleged drawings he provided were in fact drawn by another artist for him - that artist claims he was never given due credit but more importantly that Dennis stated to him "we could make a lot of money from this". Again there is your motivation.Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-26715412145083169942015-04-27T06:34:34.119-07:002015-04-27T06:34:34.119-07:00Paul -
In our search we found four women named Na...Paul -<br /><br />In our search we found four women named Naomi Self or Selff... she was said to have a brother William Self and we found more than 200 with that name. Unusual, yes? Besides, you're just speculating on why he made up such a strange name. Who knows where he got it.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-34103388748763135572015-04-27T06:26:52.584-07:002015-04-27T06:26:52.584-07:00If Dennis did fabricate the whole nurse thing and ...If Dennis did fabricate the whole nurse thing and wanted to send investigators, like KR, on a wild goose chase then I can't understand why he would have dreamt up such an unusual, and therefore easy to check out, name as Naomi Self/Selff.<br /> I can't think that I've ever come across that surname!<br />Obviously he would have avoided a Smith or Jones as too obvious...but Selff!!!Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-55273221148272141682015-04-27T05:38:54.143-07:002015-04-27T05:38:54.143-07:00CDA -
Given the time and given the circumstances,...CDA -<br /><br />Given the time and given the circumstances, I can see the military officers telling witnesses there would be dire consequences for talking about this... I will note that I don't believe there was ever any possibility of those threats being carried out and will say that I can see where witnesses might have misinterpreted exactly what was said.<br /><br />I will note that the military witnesses were told that the event was classified and revealing it to those not cleared to learn about it would results in criminal prosecution and files... which is fairly standard in such circumstances.<br /><br />So, to answer your question, yes, I think threats were made and I think that witnesses truly believe there were death threats, though the military might not have made them quite that specific.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-2289575949332079532015-04-27T05:29:37.541-07:002015-04-27T05:29:37.541-07:00David -
I'm not going to get drawn into this ...David -<br /><br />I'm not going to get drawn into this argument. Dennis clearly invented the nurse, gave us a fake name, and then complained that we couldn't find her. You provide an alibi by suggesting he didn't lie about her being killed in a plane crash but blame the "rumor" on other nurses. But if she never existed, then he invented the plane crash rumor himself.<br /><br />Yes, even good Catholic girls have affairs but I'm saying that if this is true, then his credibility suffers and if it isn't true, then it is just a reason to provide an excuse for him to write her once she left the Roswell area.<br /><br />It really boils down to his giving us a name, and when he is told that we found no evidence of an Army nurse by that name, he said he told us he wouldn't give us the right name... which is a way of blaming us for the failure...<br /><br />Sorry, I simply no longer accept the story as true. Even Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, in their book, wrote, "Dennis was found to have knowingly provided false information to investigators, and must technically stand impeached as a Roswell witness."KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-29530052249783169192015-04-26T18:06:36.143-07:002015-04-26T18:06:36.143-07:00More on Glenn Dennis:
KEVIN: “He said that she wa...More on Glenn Dennis:<br /><br />KEVIN: “He said that she was killed in an aircraft accident that killed five other nurses, but a search of the New York Times index from July 1947 to the end of 1955 revealed no military aircraft accidents that killed five nurses. Don Berliner searched the Stars & Stripes, a military newspaper published overseas for members of the military, and no such story was found. This would be Dennis' second lie.”<br /><br />Dennis never stated this as a fact. What he said is that he tried to write her and got the letter returned marked “Return to Sender--Deceased.” Later, according to his affidavit “one of the nurses at the base said the RUMOR was that she and five other nurses had been on a training mission and had been killed in a plane crash.”<br /><br />Dennis affidavit (see #14):<br />http://roswellproof.homestead.com/dennis.html#anchor_3374<br /><br />Thus I think it a gross overstatement to label this a proven LIE. Instead what you and Don Berliner found is that you couldn’t verify such a plane crash took place. But Dennis never said it was anything but a rumor. For all we know, this could be the absolute truth. He received back a letter marked “Deceased” and there was a story going around he was told that she and other nurses died in a plane crash. There is no way to prove that he actually made up this part of the story, only that you couldn’t verify it as fact.<br /><br />KEVIN: “He said originally that he had some sort of relation with this nurse, but at the time he was married and his wife was pregnant. While it certainly could be true that he was having an affair, he described the nurse as a "good Catholic girl" which would suggest that she wouldn't get involved... so this is either a lie or doesn't speak well of Dennis' credibility.”<br /><br />I find this an exceptionally weak argument that he was lying about the nurse existing or that any of this has anything to do with his credibility. Even “good Catholic girls” have affairs or lesser romantic daliances. Happens all the time.<br /><br />KEVIN: “I could also point out that his descriptions of the alien creature, as told to him by this imaginary nurse, actually matched the Martians from the 1953 version of War of the Worlds (speaking here of the arm and the hands... although he said hands with four fingers that ended in suction cups and those in the movie had three but the arm anatomy was the same) and the head matches that published in the Roswell Daily Record in 1988 suggests he was drawing on those sources.<br /><br />The large (bigger than human), red, three-fingered, WOTW movie Martian with one large suction cup at the tip of each finger, a hand with tiny wrist, tripartite eye in its chest/head, no head with neck on its shoulders, and huge bulging shoulders, only in the MOST SUPERFICIAL WAY resembles the small humanoid-looking being, with very humanoid head and neck, with a hand much more like humans (wrist, side-by-side fingers), four fingers, and TINY pads like suction cups at the ends, that he said the nurse described. Compare and see (see also Dennis’ affidavit of description):<br /><br />Drawing based on Dennis description (what he remembers the nurse drawing)<br />http://www.roswellproof.com/files/aliens.gif<br /><br />WOTW alien:<br />http://www.thedoctorsmodelmansion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/SJC_0588a.jpg<br /><br />That he then spliced in a humanoid head from the 1998 RDR, and came up with the small, humanoid body with four fingers ala the descriptions of medical sources of Leonard Stringfield (generally unknown outside the UFO community—I didn’t learn of Stringfield’s work until 1995) strikes me as very far-fetched speculation and an extremely weak argument against DennisDavid Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-68988806538282203422015-04-26T16:53:13.389-07:002015-04-26T16:53:13.389-07:00Kevin felt there were a number of reasons Glenn De...Kevin felt there were a number of reasons Glenn Dennis' story wasn’t to be believed, besides leading them astray with false names for the nurse he said he knew who told him of an alien autopsy.<br /><br />KEVIN: “He said that she had been transferred from the base within days of the events. While we know that there was a lot of that going on, there is nothing to suggest there were medical staff involved.”<br /><br />“Nothing to suggest” I’m guessing means you and others were unable to find documented evidence to that effect. But there are at least two other witnesses I know of speaking of disappearing medical personnel, including the nurse fitting Dennis’ description. <br /><br />Pete Anaya in Tim Shawcross’ “Roswell Files” said he ran into the nurse outside the hangar when he and brother Ruben went to pick up Lt. Gov. Montoya. He had known her from before from a base dance when he danced with her. After that meeting at the hangar, he said he never saw her again.<br /><br />Sgt. Milton Sprouse spoke of a staff sergeant medical tech in his barracks he knew who told him of an alien autopsy involving two doctors and two nurses that he witnessed. The next day, he said, the man was transferred from the base. <br /><br />“We never heard from him again. We asked and (they said), 'Oh, we don't know nothing about it.' ... I heard later that both nurses and both doctors were shipped different directions and nobody ever knew where they went.”<br /><br />http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Sprouse.html<br /><br />As for not finding records to that effect, you yourself have written that base records were altered to cover up anything unusual happening, e.g. citing Blanchard’s adjutant Patrick Saunders writing in the jacket of one of your books:<br /><br />“Files were altered. <b>So were personal records, along with assignments and various codings and code words. Changing serial numbers ensured that those searching later would not be able to locate those who were involved in the recovery.</b> ...If the men didn’t know one another, or were separated after the event, they would be unable to compare notes and that would make the secret easier to keep.”<br /><br />http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2009/03/roswell-ufo-crash-and-patrick-saunders.html<br /><br />His daughter also wrote you: "At one point... [he] bragged to me about how well he had covered the ‘paper trail’ associated with the clean up!"<br /><br />We certainly know of other people claiming to have been quickly transferred because they had seen too much, so why wouldn’t the same be true medical personnel? One such example was Lt. Robert Shirkey, assistant operations officer, who saw the loading of the B-29 with boxes of unusual metallic debris, being told it was from a flying saucer. Shirkey said shortly after that he was transferred to the Phillipines to an assignment that didn’t exist when he got there. He can’t document this either, since he has been unable to find the paperwork indicating the transfer took place. <br /><br />A better documented example of this is how the CIA hid the identities of men working at Area 51 so that no one would know they worked for the CIA, worked at Area 51, or what they did. Various men who worked out there have said they were paid with checks from companies they never worked for, such as Pan Am. Test pilots had records placing them at other bases doing other assignments while they were actually flying the planes. These people mention they can’t produce any paperwork showing they ever worked there. They have only each other to corroborate their “tales”. <br /><br />There are other parallels, such as security personnel saying that when an A-12 secret spy plane crashed near Wendover, Utah in 1963, witnesses to the crash (a deputy and a family on vacation who took photos) were threatened with dire consequences, and also bribed with cash to silence them. Naturally, the film was also confiscated. “You scared them,” said one. (Of course, CDA knows with his usual absolute certainty that no agency of the government would ever threaten an actual family, like the Dwyers in Roswell, so it couldn’t have happened with the A-12 crash either.)David Rudiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10213284910238852377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-64792782025433003502015-04-26T09:53:24.249-07:002015-04-26T09:53:24.249-07:00Kevin:
In the above you refer to statements made ...Kevin:<br /><br />In the above you refer to statements made by Rowe and Dwyer. Elsewhere we have had other similar claims about certain threats supposedly made by AF officials against civilians if they 'talked too much' about what they saw or heard about Roswell.<br /><br />I have never served in the USAF or in any other branch of the US military, but I am willing to state that certain of these threats are fictitious - either they were made up by the 'witnesses' or by their relatives many years after the event.<br /><br />The reason they are fictitious is that I am positive the USAF do NOT, and never have, made threats to either kill children, or kidnap them, or put them in a childrens' home or "send them for adoption" or any other preposterous notion. Anyone saying that such threats were made is talking twaddle, and you ought to say so. <br /><br />I put the question directly to you: Do you believe such threats against children, or even their parents, were ever made? I refuse to accept that any such death threats or implied kidnap threats were (or are now) made by members of the US armed forces to civilians at any time.cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-47021102655818920362015-04-25T18:31:14.751-07:002015-04-25T18:31:14.751-07:00Part II -
“Disagree - Rowe's sister has corro...Part II -<br /><br />“Disagree - Rowe's sister has corroborated her story about being threatened - all she has corroborated is that she vaguely recalls her sister claiming such a thing happened - not proof of anything really.”<br /><br />Wrong again… From the affidavit signed by Cahill…<br /><br />During a visit from my parents in 1948, my father told me that something very important had happened but the was not able to tell me. He said that he was concerned about the safety of the family if he told… my mother confirmed that something had happened and that my father wished he could tell me about it but he was afraid for the family. My mother said that my father was afraid that someone would come out and kill me if they thought he had told me anything.<br /><br />“Disagree - Rowe's testimony has not been challenged - really? Let's see: 1) She restated in 1994 that a state trooper showed her debris material that was "quicksilver" and liquid as well as solid and could be folded into "almost nothing". This part is inconsistent with other witness testimony - it resembles perhaps more what special effects conveyed in the 1994 Roswell movie - and that is a problem.”<br /><br />Oh, and I didn’t say her testimony hadn’t been challenged, said that it had not been successfully challenged, which is, of course, a matter of opinion and a slightly different matter. And the movie was made in 1994, long after Frankie offered her descriptions… and of course, all witness testimonies must agree because it is impossible that she saw something that others did not.<br /><br />“ 2) She claims MP's came to her house to threaten her soon after - and that they described "shooting her", "sending her east" for adoption, or sending her to a WWII POW camp or Japanese internment camp - really? Those camps were not even in operation in 1947.”<br /><br />No, but everyone in New Mexico knew about Orchard Park so your point is irrelevant… She even mentioned that they had been POW camps during the war so she knew the difference. <br /><br />“ 3) She claims her dad saw three dead aliens and one living - including a painting contractor who saw one walking into RAAF hospital. Odd that no one has been able to establish how many aliens there were, and despite such threats a painter was able to see an alien in broad daylight on a military base on a holiday weekend?”<br /><br />Odd that you seem to think that everyone would see the same thing in an operation that was spread over so much area and so many days. It didn’t occur to you that someone might have only seen three and someone else might have seen four which doesn’t negate the first witness, only that the second saw more. A truly useless point to make.<br /><br />“Pflock asked her about the tonsils since they were a minor part of her story - she couldn't produce any medical records and no hospitals or MDs in the area could either. Supposedly she claimed KR told her that the government "was thorough" in eliminating evidence.<br />So now we have government agents taking people's unimportant and really unrelated medical records?”<br /><br />Actually, according to Pflock Stan Friedman attempted to get her medical records and didn’t do it. No one seems to question why a medical facility would hand over the records to someone who wasn’t a relative and had no reason to see those records…<br /><br />Before you begin to challenge me about only looking for evidence that leads to the alien, how about you look at some of the evidence that leads away from your narrow point of view. Had you looked at some of the postings on this blog, you would have seen evidence that Pflock was wrong on several points as the evidence showed. For example, he claimed that a former city councilman told him that the fire department didn’t make runs outside the city. That councilman was Max Littell and he didn’t serve until the 1950s. The fire department records prove this was in error.<br />KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.com