tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post5992989733477113721..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: The Shaver Fiction = Carrion's Latest, Part IIKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-37185697293344815522016-09-17T23:14:33.668-07:002016-09-17T23:14:33.668-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bob Kofordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739226809252915992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-79261237259486881392016-09-05T08:37:22.089-07:002016-09-05T08:37:22.089-07:00I have no doubts that some government agencies or ...I have no doubts that some government agencies or personnel engaged in some sorts of deception operations during the immediate post-WWII period. If for no more reason than that they could turn some elements of pop culture to a possible intelligence advantage. <br /><br />The stumbling block for me, however, is that few if any folks seem to have been deceived. Let alone intelligence agents, spies, or agencies. <br /><br />I grew up in a US Navy shipbuilding town. New ships incorporating new technologies and design features were openly visible to anybody at the waterfront across a distance of about a quarter mile. Flotillas of mothballed WWII warships were in plain view. The presence of Soviet observers from the consulate in San Francisco was taken for granted by both the government and townsfolk. Stories of marine-capable flying saucers probably would not divert attention from an advanced technology submarine on the building ways. <br /><br />I figure something similar was the case for aircraft manufacturers and air bases. Planes take off and land. People can see them. Sightings of UFOs would not likely have led watchers to stop watching aircraft. <br /><br />Besides, news media post-WWII was far more local and localized. <br /><br />So I keep wondering who these deception activities were trying to deceive. Pitch313https://www.blogger.com/profile/02361916461539770151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-18773755787987813492016-09-03T02:27:05.866-07:002016-09-03T02:27:05.866-07:00Mr. Carrion,
It is not my intention to belittle y...Mr. Carrion,<br /><br />It is not my intention to belittle you work. But as Kevin basically said, there are a lot of holes in your version. Like Kevin, I have very serious doubts for the many of the reasons Kevin stated but for another set of very strong reason.<br /><br />In 1947, we were not at war. The rules of the big game changed. Yes deception was a very important part of war in Europe and the Pacific. Countless numbers of people's lives were saved by deception tactics. So 1947 was back to peace time but still on alert because of Russia.<br /><br />I look very strongly at the fact that since WWII was over, legally in United States, that the military laws and federal laws trumped any possible deception operation. This means that any operation with in the USA would have to have a Presidential Finding, and more likely an Executive Order. The US Attorney General would have had to be notified and likely even before the JCS. This MIGHT be the reason why Col. Goldbranson visited with Hoover but this is a total guess on my part in your favor. More like Col. Goldbranson was talking with Hoover about what happened in Roswell. No matter what reason, we simply don't know. <br /><br />the big problem as I see in your argument is Col. Goldbranson couldn't just go out a do a freelance deception operation within the boarders of the USA. This would have been a crime if any Politian opposition to Truman found out. If the JCS was involved their necks would be on the chopping block as well. I have a very difficult time believing that Col. Goldbranson and the JCS would even dare try anything you have suggested by they could have ended up in Leavenworth for the rest of their lives. This would have had to been signed off by Truman. <br /><br />So you think there are FIOA documents about a deception operation? I would suggest you start in the Presidential archives starting around 1947 and take to after Roswell into November of 1947. Look for President Executive Orders and Presidential Findings. <br /><br />Personally I don't think you find any Presidential documents dealing with a deception operation. I do think there might and stress MIGHT find in FIOA a Truman document about UFO's and waiving Federal Laws and Posse Comitatus laws dealing with the military to secure down UFO's within the USA.<br /><br />Don't believe this? Ask a constitutional attorney what would have been need to be legal.<br />Mr. Sweepyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09966969362028196312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-23291835660848826822016-09-01T20:49:29.533-07:002016-09-01T20:49:29.533-07:00I smell Ufology's next big fire fight. And lik...I smell Ufology's next big fire fight. And like every other, it will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction because it hinges on subjective interpretations of "ancient" documents created by long-dead authors whose intentions in creating them can never be known. <br /><br />Some will accept the hypothesis because it fits their viewpoint; others will continue to reject it because it doesn't. Nobody will be able to present definitive proof one way or the other that convinces everybody.<br /><br />This will eventually devolve into endless online arguments among an obsessed few hell bent on making the other guys wrong while the rest of us grow terminally bored and move on to other Ufological topics.purrlgurrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519835482606629362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-40153870564320423512016-09-01T14:48:55.216-07:002016-09-01T14:48:55.216-07:00My response to Brad's rebuttal is here.
http:...My response to Brad's rebuttal is here.<br /><br />http://historydeceived.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-name-is-goldbransoncolonel.html<br />James Carrionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13138149666834514145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-71509275388633280032016-09-01T10:32:43.263-07:002016-09-01T10:32:43.263-07:00Most researchers of the UFO topic, who have read t...Most researchers of the UFO topic, who have read through sufficient official material, agree that PsyOps programs were sought after and most likely activated. Still, it is very difficult to know the extent and exact nature of these operations.<br /><br />The United States Army, General Staff Corps had a unique interest in the UFO topic. The Chief, Intelligence Group authored the updated 452.1 Directive on 25 March 1948. The instructions were directed to the Air Force. It required MCI, at WPAFB to keep the C, IG updated on serious "Unconventional Aircraft" and "Flying Disc" sightings. This would seem to imply that a large number of these reports were not part of a PsyOps or destraction/deception plan. The document was Top Secret.<br /><br />So which of these sightings, that no one but investigators and the MCI/GSC/CIA* were aware of real time, were part of a deception, and why would we want to deceive our own pilots and RADAR operators...over an extended period of time?<br /><br /><br />* The Chief, Intelligence Group of the Intelligence Division of the USA, GSC at that time was Colonel Riley Ennis. It is clear from CIA documents that he was also head of a major CIA Office, potentially the OCD or ORE. The WDGS and their later incarnation, the USA,GSC, were very inter-twined with the CIG/CIA, from 1946 onward. This would also include the time period of the "Roswell" episode, so those who have stated that the CIG had no connection to this might very well be wrong.<br /><br />Have a great day, /BobBob Kofordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739226809252915992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-55091368800031115382016-09-01T09:51:38.682-07:002016-09-01T09:51:38.682-07:00I am not sure there is any confusion between the t...I am not sure there is any confusion between the two Goldbransons. Col. Goldbranson is identified by Holt, Ambrose, and other writers as being one of the key officers in strategic deception during WWII. He also wrote the memo. I do not see anything to indicate that his son was part of the story. Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13489446146745522101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-8104534762107495362016-09-01T00:08:46.461-07:002016-09-01T00:08:46.461-07:00The source of the confusion seems to be that there...The source of the confusion seems to be that there were two Carl E Goldbranson.<br /><br />Carl Emanuel Goldbranson, 1900-1957, Colonel, USAF:<br /><br />http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49190419<br /><br />And his son, Carl Edward Goldbranson, 1922-2008, US Army, his son:<br /><br />http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49190420<br /><br />who is identified as the deception ops operator:<br /><br />https://books.google.de/books?id=E569Q7s1CnsC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA253&dq=colonel+carl+goldbranson&source=bl&ots=6DEvQJ4Ecg&sig=fFSVVEMwlzyyGG0TcwhH8xcXhLE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKxJm0y-3OAhWDBiwKHVh9BT4Q6AEIHzAB#v=onepage&q=colonel%20carl%20goldbranson&f=false<br /><br />So the memo in question seems to be from Carl Goldbranson Sr rather than Jr...UFO DNAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121931682300142214noreply@blogger.com