tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post7446265266011982969..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: Expedition Unknown in SocorroKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-4453603112964751102023-01-08T03:35:43.488-08:002023-01-08T03:35:43.488-08:00I like the book Kevin!
You have included a lot abo...I like the book Kevin!<br />You have included a lot about other UFO sightings, landings and even ufonaughts.<br />It seemed as if quite a localised flap was growing around that time which includes strange and exciting reports but which also led you to ask about how ufology itself can work against serious investigation. Reports lead to a flap, does the flap then lead to more reports? Or just more attention paid to the skies?<br /> I remember long discussion and debate here about aspects of this case like the symbol or the 'humanoids' (a term we used to describe rather human-shaped monsters in Dungeons and Dragons).<br />Although one debate here which became quite heated but which got almost no coverage in the book was Zamora's glasses and the fact that they had fallen off his face for much of the incident. Without knowing more about the quality of his vision at the time I cannot use the missing glasses to automatically throw doubt on what he claims he saw.<br /> I understand now that it was not a 'single witness case'. Blasting blue flame was reported by others, as was the deafening roar, both quite notable and specific sensory effects. <br />I agree with some skeptics that these might seem more like staged effects and might smell of hoax. I am certainly not in the habit of underestimating hoaxers ... but still, in that location and that time with the witnesses that were involved as fast as they were ... a hoax is very doubtful.<br /> I agree that there is still more evidence we would need to provide proof of alien visitation but that this case (in terms of the quality and connections provided by evidence) comes very close to the mark. <br />Forgive my long absence, I will be looking over your collection of books a little more closely to provide my next ufology read.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />WoodyWoodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16756590870917752187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-79132226981394950812022-11-21T04:03:02.186-08:002022-11-21T04:03:02.186-08:00Thanks Kevin,
It is a curious case with a single-w...Thanks Kevin,<br />It is a curious case with a single-witness landing. There is description of vague second-hand corroberation but for all i've read about the case I feel a little lost. I don't like any of the banal, terrestrial explanations either. The 'aliens' were only described as 'people'. The inter-stellar craft was described as a 'blasting flame' propelled thing beyond our talent at the time but seemingly not far beyond. <br />Landing-trace reports can be important.<br />I recently ordered 'Encounter in the Desert'. I haven't read a UFO book in a very long time but i'm getting the feeling from you that this case is a little more interesting than i've gathered so far and I look forward to reading your book on the case.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />WoodyWoodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16756590870917752187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-58507610007416156562022-11-10T21:10:34.504-08:002022-11-10T21:10:34.504-08:00I'm incredulous that anyone could suggest Zamo...I'm incredulous that anyone could suggest Zamora saw some experimental craft from a distance of 33 paces (he got to within 100') and somehow could not determine what he was seeing. Every time I now read that in YT comments, my reply is "therefore you yourself could not distinguish a man-made craft being held aloft by a helicopter from a distance of 33 paces? Please admit as such, and I'll then entertain the idea Zamora could make the same mistake". Nobody seems to want to fess up to that. Plus, if that *was* the case, what prevented anyone in authority from saying that is indeed what happened. Done, over, mystery solved. Take Zamora at his word and go from there: either an ET craft/occupants that felt a 2 or 3 minute visit to Earth was more than enough, or something far more bizarre. As Vallee said recently "I'll be disappointed if UFO's turn out to be merely ET".jamesravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00870675215940687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-79733603045482672382022-10-25T17:38:09.453-07:002022-10-25T17:38:09.453-07:00Dr Kevin Randle "....if all the mundane and n...Dr Kevin Randle <i>"....if all the mundane and natural explanations fail to explain a sighting, the default should not be alien visitation.<br /><br />However, I also believe that it is the responsibility of the skeptic to acknowledge the failed explanation, or to scrutinize an explanation with the same skeptical insight given to the claim of alien visitation."</i><br /><br />I don't think I've ever heard this point ever made as well as this.Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-87458211483848295312022-10-24T12:20:05.871-07:002022-10-24T12:20:05.871-07:00Look at "Surveyor T-2 Accident Review". ...Look at "Surveyor T-2 Accident Review". It was a balloon drop test. Meaning, the Surveyor model was lifted by a _tethered_ balloon 1200 ft and released. Being tethered means it is over "ground zero". It is not flying willy-nilly. It is not carried by helicopter. It screwed up on April 28, 1964 and fell improperly and burst into flames on the ground.<br /><br />The first attempt at doing this drop test was 4-20-64 to 4-21-64.<br />The second attempt was 4-21-64 to 4-22-64.<br />The third attempt was 4-22-64 to 4-23-64.<br />The fourth attempt was 4-27-64 to 4-28-64.Moonmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10293997781090304733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-70686511919536570392022-10-24T04:22:01.937-07:002022-10-24T04:22:01.937-07:00Well said Kevin. I understand that some of the re...Well said Kevin. I understand that some of the reports and related reports (like the discovery of a report of an almost identical craft at a different location), add some strength to the case. <br />You make a good point about acknowledging failed denials, weak explanations and theories which seem no better than the incredible one.<br />That's one of the things I love about critical thinking, I can turn that deadly beam on myself and weigh my own interpretations with as much smarts and gusto as I aim at the incredible claims.<br /><br />Your fan, <br /><br />Woody.Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16756590870917752187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-61644030848680636492022-10-23T12:03:17.131-07:002022-10-23T12:03:17.131-07:00Woody -
First, let me say that I understand that ...Woody -<br /><br />First, let me say that I understand that it is the claimant to prove the case rather than for the skeptic to disprove it. That almost goes without saying.<br /><br />And, if all the mundane and natural explanations fail to explain a sighting, the default should not be alien visitation.<br /><br />However, I also believe that it is the responsibility of the skeptic to acknowledge the failed explanation, or to scrutinize an explanation with the same skeptical insight given to the claim of alien visitation. Given the testimony of Lonnie Zamora, given the investigation that took place on the very night of the sighting, given the physical traces left behind, and given that a helicopter holding up the LEM is not a viable explanation, I believe that the Zamora/Socorro sighting remains unidentified.<br /><br />Given the nature of the Socorro case, and some of the new evidence presented in Encounter in the Desert, I believe that all the terrestrial explanations offered to this point have failed but I say again, that does not lead directly to the extraterrestrial, only that, as of now, we have no good terrestrial explanation.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-32597245411229673602022-10-22T23:40:47.727-07:002022-10-22T23:40:47.727-07:00Hi Kevin, I think skeptics like myself will often ...Hi Kevin, I think skeptics like myself will often rate a report and supposed explanations in terms of how far the explanations seem to be from the report. With a history of countless misidentifications, testing of rather curious looking devices and limitless imagination in terms of 'UFO excitement', we can care less for the accuracy and more for detail stretch.<br />When alternative natural explanations are considered and all shown to be no likely explanation for an amazing UFO report, does it then become a likely visiting alien? <br />Is it for skeptics to disprove incredible claims, or is it for the claimant to prove that it was an alien, interstellar craft?<br />I understand we wait for better suggestions that could possibly explain an amazing case. But does a lack of better explanation leave us with anything better than a mystery?Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16756590870917752187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-36292207432962894182022-10-20T09:24:35.369-07:002022-10-20T09:24:35.369-07:00Kevin: So let me get this straight -- the program...Kevin: So let me get this straight -- the program concludes that Lonnie Zamora could not distinguish a helicopter & lunar surveyor from the craft Sheriff Zamora reported seeing? This is ludicrous, in fact, even moreso than those who suggest Major Marcel could not distinguish between flying saucer components and a weather balloon.<br /><br />In addition, please recall that Sheriff Zamora witnessed the craft blast-off and upward from its landing place. What type of helicopter blasts-off, pray tell?<br /><br />And finally, Sheriff Zamora never mentioned hearing the singular sound of a helicopter either. Don't you think this might have come up at some point if a helicopter was in any way involved?John Steigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10038697365721558826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-82950840927171259342022-10-20T08:53:01.525-07:002022-10-20T08:53:01.525-07:00If there was a helicopter involved, it isn't f...If there was a helicopter involved, it isn't feasible that Zamora wouldn't have noticed it. He was a cop for goodness sake...part of the job is to "notice" things. <br /> <br />As for the "student hoax" theory, I've never understood how this has ever been entertained at all.<br /> A hoax is only worthwhile when at a later time you can proudly boast about how you have "hoaxed" someone in the first place!<br /> It would have been an incredible achievement that someone would have owned up to by now.Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-35541424147183245702022-10-20T08:53:00.922-07:002022-10-20T08:53:00.922-07:00If there was a helicopter involved, it isn't f...If there was a helicopter involved, it isn't feasible that Zamora wouldn't have noticed it. He was a cop for goodness sake...part of the job is to "notice" things. <br /> <br />As for the "student hoax" theory, I've never understood how this has ever been entertained at all.<br /> A hoax is only worthwhile when at a later time you can proudly boast about how you have "hoaxed" someone in the first place!<br /> It would have been an incredible achievement that someone would have owned up to by now.Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-58585823223551362792022-10-20T08:44:06.022-07:002022-10-20T08:44:06.022-07:00RWE -
An interesting comment but is there any doc...RWE -<br /><br />An interesting comment but is there any documentation for the mission being scrubbed. Such documentation would eliminate this proposed solution.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-14153769948326442272022-10-19T13:11:33.935-07:002022-10-19T13:11:33.935-07:00I saw that episode as well and discussed it with a...I saw that episode as well and discussed it with a friend of mine. He replied that the Surveyor explanation had already been shot down, since aside from the obvious requirement of an invisible H-13, that Friday mission had been scheduled but actually was scrubbed and did not even occur that day. RWEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08060301488401028744noreply@blogger.com