tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post7709195946152689768..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: MJ-12 vs The Unholy ThirteenKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-13119838760272398662010-01-23T11:13:00.584-08:002010-01-23T11:13:00.584-08:00To: Boyinthemachine
My hard drive/computer had be...To: Boyinthemachine<br /><br />My hard drive/computer had been hacked, or otherwise attacked while I was sick, and that hard drive was removed from my computer. That was the same time my first blog was removed, and I started my current one.<br /><br />I don't have the software at hand to retrieve what is on there, but could get it if need be. I just didn't see the need to.<br /><br />As such, I had conducted a new search using the same metod, to no avail.<br /><br />What am I implying? That theree really is an OPNAC BBS, but can't say for certain what that exactly means, other than what I already said.Bob Kofordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739226809252915992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-49170066909801212052010-01-22T22:28:35.947-08:002010-01-22T22:28:35.947-08:00@ Bob Koford,
What are your implying and why didn...@ Bob Koford,<br /><br />What are your implying and why didn't you check your browser history?Doc Conjurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569054730270980353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-37459118389934480712010-01-11T11:13:11.469-08:002010-01-11T11:13:11.469-08:00Take it with a grain of salt, but several years ag...Take it with a grain of salt, but several years ago I stumbled upon something that seemed to bolster, somewhat, the SOM manual. Yeah, I know, it's all bogus...but you can confirm this story through Ryan Wood if you so desire.<br /><br />I was doing Internet searches of different types, looking for background data on Air Defense history, to add to what I had learned through reading historical accounts via bookstores and the library.<br /><br />At the period of time that I'm referring to, I had become seriously ill with some type of exotic virus. The symptoms were very much like Malaria. On one evening, when this sickness had temporarily subsided, I took the opportunity to get back to my studies. Before calling it a night, on this occasion, while on an official page of the Marine Corps, I decided to run a search on the term OPNAC. Much to my surprise, the third item on the list that emerged had to do with a Colonel being elected to the OPNAC Science board.<br /><br />I immediately contacted Ryan, and sent him the link. We never discussed it further, so I don't know if he or his father found more.<br /><br />I later found out that BBS stood for Biological, and Behavioral Studies of the Navy's Aeronautics board.<br /><br />Much later, after recovering from this illness, I repeated my search, but could not find the link anymore.Bob Kofordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739226809252915992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-53106832252541247472010-01-08T04:02:06.557-08:002010-01-08T04:02:06.557-08:00Acording to author Timothy Good Dr Eric A Walker, ...Acording to author Timothy Good Dr Eric A Walker, who had held a number of senior scientific posts including chairman of the Institute of Defense Analysis confirmed in a recorded telephone conversation with William Steinman in 1986 that he had attended meetings at Wright Patterson Air Force Base concerning the military recovery of flying saucers and bodies of occupants.<br /><br />'Did you ever hear of the MJ-12 group? asked Steinman. 'Yes, I know of MJ-12. I have known of them for forty years,'replied Walker. 'You are delving into an area that you can do absolutly nothing about...Why don't you just leave it alone and drop it?' <br /><br />The transcript of the phone conversation was published by MUFON in 1991.john scarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03442421969184768851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-80179766942517372852010-01-07T12:28:02.381-08:002010-01-07T12:28:02.381-08:00CDA -
I'm not going to get involved in an arg...CDA -<br /><br />I'm not going to get involved in an argument over semantics. If you wish to interpret Ruppelt's words one way, go right ahead. I base my interpretation on my years as a military officer and what I saw happen at high level. Clearly there was an organization dedicated to suppressing UFO information and the documentation is heavy to prove it. If you wish to see it as something else, more power to you...<br /><br />As for General Exon. When I first spoke to him he had very little knowledge of the UFO field and all the little sub groups that populate it. He was unaware of the MJ-12 at the time and he was talking about the group of people, in Washington, D.C. who were controlling some of the UFO investigative activities. <br /><br />It is clear that something, other than Project Blue Book was at work here and we have the documentation to prove it... from the various organizations to the classified project names and to general officers who were telling us these things.<br /><br />No, this doesn't lead to the extraterrestrial but it does suggest interest at the top. That really, was all I was saying here.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-68364410450907370022010-01-07T09:23:42.901-08:002010-01-07T09:23:42.901-08:00Well it's nice to find someone who doesn't...Well it's nice to find someone who doesn't find the MJ-12 idea the holy grail of Ufology. There are any number of reasons to doubt the existence of this group based on how the information unfolded but the most obvious one is the fact the "documents" are all there is to support it's existence. Most folks have no understanding of how information security works at that level. <br /><br />At this level of security and secrecy the only written material would be "eyes only" paper that would never leave a briefing room. Each document, i.e. a memo or written brief, would be accounted for before and after every meeting. There would a person whose job it is to account for each document at the end of meetings and who would personally see to the destruction of such documents. The mere possession of such a document outside of a briefing room, even if an individual is part of the briefing list, is considered prima fascia evidence of treason. If any of this material every made it into a saved file it would likely be kept by a single individual (who would be taking the lead) and there would be absolutely no paper trail discoverable by the usual FOI requests. Further: no discussion of the topic would be allowed outside of secure areas that are cleared by counter intelligence. The point is: every shred of paper is strictly accounted for and there is really no chance of stuff just showing up "somewhere". <br /><br />I've spent some time on active duty. There were rooms tucked away in squadron spaces that were locked. A limited number of people had access. Even though I carried a security clearance (which, contrary to what you might have heard is not a very big deal, it comes with being an officer) I was not allowed to enter because I had no need to know and no one every talked about what happened in the rooms. Ever! And this is for low level information. At the highest levels of security the information flow is designed so that it's invisible. It never happened. These people don't even talk in their sleep. <br /><br />The idea that written info classified at this level conveniently just "shows up" in a file after all the principals are long gone is laughable.MnDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436488742605068922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-49039262181720099422010-01-06T06:54:09.708-08:002010-01-06T06:54:09.708-08:00It is the Army, it is the Air Force, it is the Nav...It is the Army, it is the Air Force, it is the Navy (and always the US ones) that control everything about UFOs, isn't it?<br />At least that's what you (and other ETHers) constantly tell us. <br /><br />Kevin: I have looked up Ruppelt's chapter 2, p.22 and nowhere does he say a 'committee' existed in July 1947. He does say, as you quote, that certain minds were hard at work at the time, housed in those Quonset huts. OK, so those minds were hard at work, concerned about UFOs. A very natural thing to do when both Russian and possible ex-German missiles were strong suspects, and the military were highly concerned. These ATIC people were indeed very worried, as were those at the Pentagon, but I repeat, there was NO committee. A committee is something that meets on a regular basis and has minutes, officers and agendas. <br /><br />Tell me: When you first met General Exon, had he read about or heard about MJ-12? The reason I ask is that I firmly believe he invented 'The Unholy 13' from what he had heard about MJ-12 and decided to include a few of the same personnel on it and upped the number by one. He was relying on shaky memories and confabulating things a bit.<br /><br />Am I, just possibly, correct?<br /><br />By the way that Interstellar housewife's (partial) face <br />looks highly terrestrial to me!cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-11277585231615285492010-01-06T04:56:10.794-08:002010-01-06T04:56:10.794-08:00Others that spoke of the control group include Wil...Others that spoke of the control group include Wilbert B Smith, Dr Robert Sarbacher, and Dr Eric Walker. The recorded phone call with Ad Bobby Rae Inman is also of interest. After all it's the Navy that control the hardware today!<br /><br />John Sjohn scarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03442421969184768851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-44995474980709338852010-01-05T22:25:05.045-08:002010-01-05T22:25:05.045-08:00There are certainly items of interest that can be ...There are certainly items of interest that can be gleaned, that point in a certain direction, that I have been pondering for some time.<br /><br />Immediately following the time-period of the Roswell Incident, the Army fought for control of the White Sands Proving Ground -utterly. The Air Force, through General Twining, ordered Harold Watson to find out "what the Army was doing at White Sands?", and so the first Air Force ELINT program was born. <br /><br />The Army was the first to push for a "Point Defense" Air Defense system, while others scoffed at the idea, and the Army was the first to persue such an endeavor (under the AFSWP).<br /><br />In the late Forties, and early Fifties, when certain Navy personnel were bucking the UFO secrecy trend, it was the Army that continually responded, and thwarted such efforts (Commander McLaughlin being reprimanded by the Army PIO Officer at White Sands for speaking openly to the press, for instance.)<br /><br />The military office most closely associated with the CIA...the Army (G2).<br /><br />Coupled with this information would be the certain few of the Scientific Advisors who, over the years, played a more hands-on role in the response to the UFO problem, as it related to Defense. One such example would be George Valley, who was very influential in changing the minds of the Air Force in regards to the need for a Continental Air Defense system, AFTER viewing the UFO data.<br /><br />Why is it that, while everyone else was screaming about how a point defense system was such a waste of time, and money, the Army seemed to know better? After all, their detractors were correct in pointing out how ineffective such a system would be against fast moving bombers. But what if the objects they are intersted in shooting down had a propensity to hover? If a point defense system could be brought to bare at any of these moments, might not it prove to be effective? (given that the power behind the detination would be of use, of course)<br /><br />In any case, it would seem that, whoever was truly behind the real UFO program, as it pertains to a control group, the Army would have been at the apex...or at least thats the way it seems to me.Bob Kofordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739226809252915992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-72445923935769503372010-01-05T15:25:41.140-08:002010-01-05T15:25:41.140-08:00The more I dig into it, the more I feel that the M...The more I dig into it, the more I feel that the MJ12 documents are false. In any event we don't seem to be able to prove they are not false and haven't been able to for years -- so I agree that we should probably let it go and move forward down other avenues. <br /><br />I've much appreciation for Stanton and his work, but MJ12 is a headache term anymore -- and arguing the same points for another few decades doesn't seem very beneficial, won't get us anywhere, and is only really worthy as speculative fluff to pad more recycled crap-UFO documentaries on the History channel.<br /><br />Great post =)Deirdrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04423108917664239449noreply@blogger.com