tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post8830865687175812158..comments2024-03-19T11:13:40.642-07:00Comments on A Different Perspective: Scientists and the Roswell SlidesKRandlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-34153240654362489222015-10-02T12:02:36.222-07:002015-10-02T12:02:36.222-07:00I should add:
> Betty wrote me that the the cr...I should add:<br /><br />> Betty wrote me that the the creature in the Alien Autopsy looked like her abductors.<br /><br />Ed, if you have emails or letters from Betty Hill making this unlikely claim, post them online, or give copies to a blogger who will. Your personal testimony is absolutely worthless, seeing as you steadfastly use a hoax (the AA film) to support your verkakte theory.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-70364015466775792012015-10-02T11:48:22.899-07:002015-10-02T11:48:22.899-07:00@Brian Bell and Steve Sawyer
> by age 84 Betty ...@Brian Bell and Steve Sawyer<br />> by age 84 Betty had been influenced to morph her original alien depictions into something much closer to today's modern Greys<br />> how she characterized their appearance much later as the stereotypical kind of "greys"<br /><br />No.<br /><br />Betty's account did change from time to time, but I have yet to see her identify the aliens as greys. In fact, several times she explicitly denies this. She called greys "movie aliens."<br /><br />Betty in Fortean Times 110, May 1998: "But the UFO people well, you've seen the pictures. They don't look like any of Budd Hopkins' bug-eyed monsters."<br /><br />http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/betty.html<br /><br />During an interview in 1999, Betty is asked about the grays. Betty responds: "No, no, no. They were a form of human being." She describes them. The interviewer asks, nothing like the classic grays? Betty: "I’ve never seen those. I don’t know what they’re talking about." (This exchanges starts shortly after the five-minute mark.)<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g93YoWsHjU<br /><br />Betty in UFO magazine, V 17, No 5, Oct-Nov 2002: "The creatures we saw that night actually looked not that much different from regular people. If you were to see one of them walking down the street, you wouldn't even stop and turn around because they didn't look anything like movie aliens."<br /><br />If anyone can find Betty saying anything different, please contact me (I am on Twitter). I don't want your interpretation, I want her actual words.Terry the Censorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442516952399215568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-4518481933798719172015-08-26T13:28:12.139-07:002015-08-26T13:28:12.139-07:00Brian -
While the racial identity of the Hills is...Brian -<br /><br />While the racial identity of the Hills is an important factor and should be noted (though pictures of the couple seem to give that away), the theory "Isn't it more plausible that during the Civil Rights Movement an interracial couple decided to concoct a story to draw attention to themselves as means to support, in some odd way, the common bond between blacks and whites and draw attention away from racial tension?" is the problem. While you can say, "Well, it's more plausible than an abduction," that doesn't make it right or credible. This is the problem that I have with your post, not to mention that, as usual, you have taken the topic far off into the weeds.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-32481518019478518832015-08-26T12:43:40.104-07:002015-08-26T12:43:40.104-07:00And also my point about the Hill's racial diff...And also my point about the Hill's racial differences is not that they came from different races or that it was an interracial relationship. Those aspects don't matter to me.<br /><br />What does matter is the context in which the events surrounding the witness' are adequately considered.<br /><br />The point being that if we fail to take into account social concerns, cultural upbringing, health status, events taking place at the time of the experience, societal norms, religious beliefs, etc. surrounding any case then we are not assessing correctly all the factors that MAY have influenced what the witness is claiming.Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-44481432026571864242015-08-26T08:29:07.117-07:002015-08-26T08:29:07.117-07:00Interesting thread and some great points made.
I...Interesting thread and some great points made. <br /><br />I've never much thought about this before, but reports I've read on "alien abduction" does seem to suggest that it's something much more heavily experienced by white Americans.<br /><br />Does anyone know if there has been any sort of study into the racial statistical breakdown of reported US abductions? <br /><br />Secondly, my thoughts on Betty Hill. She wouldn't be the first person to maybe not be as mentally agile in the "nineties" and "noughties" as she was 1961. This might explain why she made more and more eccentric statements as she got older...and why she couldn't see that her description of her abductors were so much different than what she had stated (in black and white) in "Interupted Journey"Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-64687456155909041942015-08-26T08:25:54.365-07:002015-08-26T08:25:54.365-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Paul Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267452625547760508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-19412774794709639812015-08-26T08:15:43.879-07:002015-08-26T08:15:43.879-07:00There are other reasons in addition to those alrea...There are other reasons in addition to those already stated as to why interracial relationships in mid 20th century America are potentially relevant to reported alien abductions and/or events in which the witnesses became extremely confused. In their 2010 article 'Cries From the Past: Torture's Ugly Echoes', writer/researchers Hank Albarelli and Dr. Jeffrey Kaye explored such circumstances as Operation Paperclip and Project Artichoke.<br /><br />"That the CIA's initial mind control activities show a close kinship with many prominent characters within the racist and anti-immigration eugenics movement is no coincidence," they wrote.<br /><br />'Cries From the Past' cited now declassified documents in establishing that Project Artichoke conducted over 250 specialized assignments throughout Europe and Asia alone. Operations were also carried out on American soil, in which objectives included "contacting" certain aliens, or immigrants, by infiltrating targeted groups and setting up "sympathetic fake left-wing organizations" to attract members of demographics of interest. Attempts were made to indoctrinate individuals as "hypnotically controlled agents."<br /><br />To fail to take such circumstances into account while considering potential explanations for events surrounding the Hills loses context of the era, in my opinion. I personally think it most likely the Hills were simply confused during their infamous journey and the legend snowballed, but if fantastic explanations are going to be entertained, activities of the intel community of the era deserve a spot at the table.<br /><br />Many people think such possibilities are far fetched and extreme, and they are entitled to do so if they choose. I would be inclined, however, to ask they offer the same skepticism to stories of aliens who set up road blocks and conduct pregnancy tests on females involved in interracial relationships, which have no supporting documents for their existence and precedence. I'd also invite further consideration of the reason such a story would seem more likely than human-instigated events confused as alien abduction: cultural conditioning (TV, movies, magazines, etc.). <br /> Jack Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05778028283888927074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-72731721191916485212015-08-26T07:47:38.132-07:002015-08-26T07:47:38.132-07:00Racial and religious matters are a perfectly legit...Racial and religious matters are a perfectly legitimate topic when discussing UFO sightings & abductions, and their relevance. For example why do we hear of so few sightings and abductions from the far east (China, India, Pakistan, etc.) and relatively few from parts of Africa and the middle east? Is it just that news of them does not reach western media, or is there another reason? <br /><br />I wholly accept that Kevin may not want to go down this line, but maybe Brian Bell is right and it DOES have some relevance to the Hill case. I am not saying one way or the other and I do not pretent to know the answer.cdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01005702597775594084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-54847953740270232162015-08-26T07:36:44.190-07:002015-08-26T07:36:44.190-07:00Mr . Randle thanks!!If you want you can´t delete t...Mr . Randle thanks!!If you want you can´t delete those postingsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08869512804072910852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-64096204181181445592015-08-25T21:25:21.228-07:002015-08-25T21:25:21.228-07:00@ Larry
Thanks for your explanation. Again I will...@ Larry<br /><br />Thanks for your explanation. Again I will state the investigations and analysis of the Hill case in the mid 1960's offered aspects of an interracial marriage as a possible explanation or contributing factor. I don't care who it offends because that is documented fact not something I made up as a modern day racial slur. If you want to selectively edit parts of individual historical cases because they offend you that's your business - to me that is tantamount to historical revisionism for PC sake. So be it. We already know that ET'ers edit out whatever they don't like about cases anyway...what's one more detail taken out, right?Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-20320204799798550392015-08-25T16:18:14.820-07:002015-08-25T16:18:14.820-07:00Brian:
You stated: "I'm convinced Larry...Brian:<br /><br />You stated: "I'm convinced Larry that despite having written a book on UFOs you know absolutely nothing about older cases such as this as evidenced by your odd reaction to facts documented decades ago. Why is that?"<br /><br />As a general rule I don't respond to comments such as yours, in this case I will.<br /><br />If you had read my book, which obviously you have not, you would know that I go back as far as the Cape Girardeau incident, the Los Angles Air Raid, Roswell in depth, the farmington Armada, the Mantel case, the Washington-Merry-Go-Round and so on. I have stated that this was the golden years of flying saucers or UFOs. I have spent more hours that I care to remember in presidential archives, at my own expense, have you?<br /><br />I happen to be personal friends with, Kathleen Marden, the niece of Betty Hill through our work in UFOlogy, and have discussed this case in depth with her. She was extremely close to Betty all her life and later with Barney. My wife and I have dined with Kathy and I'm sure Kathy would be extremely angry at you bringing the issue of race into her aunt's memory.<br /><br />Kevin, who has done far more research than I have, found your comment out of line, as I do. You asked a pompous question without knowing anything about me, now you have your answer. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12035379587054006528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-22147324417640562752015-08-24T22:46:24.353-07:002015-08-24T22:46:24.353-07:00Larry:
Not certain why you are so offended or sur...Larry:<br /><br />Not certain why you are so offended or surprised that "race" as you call it is brought into it. The investigation in the 1960's proposed that their interracial marriage caused "stress" which created in their minds to either hoax the event or that it provoked mental delusion. That concept was never mine - no matter how "dumb" you and others think it might be. I'm convinced Larry that despite having written a book on UFOs you know absolutely nothing about older cases such as this as evidenced by your odd reaction to facts documented decades ago. Why is that?Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-26563254268143981812015-08-24T17:47:59.601-07:002015-08-24T17:47:59.601-07:00Kevin:
Exactly! What more can you say, it's s...Kevin:<br /><br />Exactly! What more can you say, it's simply "dumb."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12035379587054006528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-88906198824373638042015-08-24T17:10:51.632-07:002015-08-24T17:10:51.632-07:00"Isn't it more plausible that during the ...<i>"Isn't it more plausible that during the Civil Rights Movement an interracial couple decided to concoct a story to draw attention to themselves as means to support, in some odd way, the common bond between blacks and whites and draw attention away from racial tension?"</i><br /><br />Well, while Betty and Barney were active in their local NAACP chapter, I frankly doubt what you suggest is likely, although "more plausible" than the kind of "alien abduction" scenario they came to believe. <br /><br />I suspect their experience, whatever its unknown origin and nature, was probably not deliberately concocted for the kind of purpose you posit, as to have done so would have backfired and drawn negative attention, and there's no indication I'm aware of that they ever tried to express or exploit their experience for the reasons you surmise. <br /><br />The essential problem with the Hill's somewhat differing accounts of their recalled experience is that it was almost entirely anecdotal. The minimal "physical artifacts" of their alleged encounter (torn, soiled dress, scraped shoe tips, supposedly anomalous magnetic spots on their car's trunk lid, etc.) could also "more plausibly" be explained via more mundane or ex post facto actions. <br /><br />Over time, it has been suggested by some that perhaps they had some bizarre kind of shared "folie à deux" (or à imposée, à simultanée) or temporary psychotic break invoked by some trigger related to stress or sleep deprivation, or that maybe they were "abducted" and manipulated possibly as part of some kind of MK ULTRA experiment. The use of regressive hypnosis, by Dr. Benjamin Simon in this case, is also quite problematical. <br /><br />But again, these too are just little more than "contra" speculations and conjecture. <br /><br />We simply do not know what actually occurred, due to lack of sufficient evidence, and the various theories of what different people have concluded in lieu of facts may say more about the beliefs or psychological orientation of the individuals offering such opinions than any confirmable actuality. <br /><br />See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_and_Betty_Hill<br /><br />And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux<br /><br />It's quite interesting, as Kevin points out, the major differences in how and what Betty Hill initially described as the morphology of the "aliens" she recalled encountering and how she characterized their appearance much later as the stereotypical kind of "greys" of more modern times, starting with Streiber's "Communion" book. Her early descriptions obviously conflict with and contradict her later statements, and that really is a serious problem in terms of her credibility. <br /><br />The real point here is that, in relation to the topic of this blog post, and like the interpretation of what the "Roswell slides" apparently were perceived as by Carey, Schmitt, and Bragalia, of an alien body, the same kind of human psychological factors of prior beliefs, public claims, cultural influences, long-term personal vested interests, and the subsequent, basic and often distorted "will to believe" can often lead to misinterpretation and subtle confabulation in certain misleading circumstances and particularly where a critical lack of empirical objectivity results in selective and mistaken "cherry-picking" and confirmation bias that can lead to false conclusions perhaps more than anything else. <br /><br />A real dilemma and quandary related to our perceptual and intellectual filters and inherent anthropocentric orientation, and somewhat related to what Vallee has referred to as the "assumption of mediocrity" based on what in philosophy is termed the "principle of mediocrity." <br /><br />See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediocrity_principle<br /><br />And: http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/Vallee-Davis-model.pdfSteve Sawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17716314515943305158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-65047091477044282392015-08-24T17:03:13.513-07:002015-08-24T17:03:13.513-07:00Larry -
I was about to say the same thing. I woul...Larry -<br /><br />I was about to say the same thing. I would add that if you were a racially mixed couple in the early 1960s the very last thing you would want to do would be to call attention to yourselves by claiming to have been abducted by aliens. I had heard this ridiculous theory years ago and thought it would be rejected because it was so dumb.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-43090920353724927452015-08-24T17:01:07.103-07:002015-08-24T17:01:07.103-07:00Kevin,
For whatever reason, she changed her mind a...Kevin,<br />For whatever reason, she changed her mind and in a letter to<br />Philip Mantle, Feb 3, 2000, she writes that she and Barney referred to their captors as "UFO-people" and not weird or aliens. They were all men; they didn't notice any feminine appearances and they were all individuals and all were different in appearance. Their eyes were larger and noses smaller, no hair, or protruding part of their ears... : "The UFO people we saw had a closer resemblance to this (alien autopsy)film than any other picture"<br />Why would she say this if it weren't true. Some had big noses and other had small ones, just like here with most of them being shown as small-nosed. How did Ray Santilli, fool so many people into somehow believing that he could create a hoax I've known him for twenty years, in Qct. That's when I wrote my first AA article and sent it to Ray and we've been in contact ever since. I know he could never pull off a hoax like this. There isn't any evidence that he did.<br />I asked John Humphries, who get's credit for making the fake creature from both Ray and Spyros about where he got his ideas and he said from the old footage of the creature that Ray supplied.<br />I think you should have done a background check on Spyros before you put his face on the front of your blog.<br />What do you mean:"at your own peril"?<br />Ed<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386459533231845274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-63059396625599498552015-08-24T15:00:28.430-07:002015-08-24T15:00:28.430-07:00I'm at a loss for words to see that race is no...I'm at a loss for words to see that race is now being brought into the conversation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12035379587054006528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-90282530386732353372015-08-24T10:34:42.582-07:002015-08-24T10:34:42.582-07:00Ed -
As Kevin has correctly pointed out the alie...Ed - <br /><br />As Kevin has correctly pointed out the aliens depicted, drawn, described, and sculpted as found on the website you provided:<br /><br />http://www.theparanormalguide.com/blog/the-hill-ufo-abduction-case<br /><br />Bear absolutely no relationship to the ones Betty described in "The Interrupted Journey". How do you rationalize this? Clearly Betty was influenced over time to convey something unlike what the book described - in fact so unlike that by age 84 Betty had been influenced to morph her original alien depictions into something much closer to today's modern Greys, not to mention Sci-Fi characters depicted in The Twilight Zone and other Hollywood media.<br /><br />Isn't it more plausible that during the Civil Rights Movement an interracial couple decided to concoct a story to draw attention to themselves as means to support, in some odd way, the common bond between blacks and whites and draw attention away from racial tension?Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-57890636351201549722015-08-24T09:35:07.460-07:002015-08-24T09:35:07.460-07:00Ed -
My final word on this. The Alien Autopsy is ...Ed -<br /><br />My final word on this. The Alien Autopsy is an admitted hoax. I provided you with Betty Hill's description of the aliens made to Benjamin Simon and provided to John Fuller in The Interrupted Journey. You ignore this important information at your own peril.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-56360687998979795332015-08-24T08:26:52.306-07:002015-08-24T08:26:52.306-07:00Kevin,
Betty wrote me that the the creature in the...Kevin,<br />Betty wrote me that the the creature in the Alien Autopsy looked like her abductors.<br />She also told Philip and KT that same story. I think Barney's drawings are very close to depicting the AA creatures. The "alien bust" shows a similar creature.<br /><br />http://www.theparanormalguide.com/blog/the-hill-ufo-abduction-case<br /><br />Brian,<br />My information regarding the alien autopsy has been gathered over the last fifteen years, but my major contribution has been the discovery and survey of the "crash site" the cameraman described and gave directions. And you don't have to take my word for it. You can visit yourself.<br /><br />http://www.thewhyfiles.net/gehrman.htmAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386459533231845274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-52603477754783425712015-08-24T07:37:30.117-07:002015-08-24T07:37:30.117-07:00Ed -
The Interrupted Journey, page 298 (hardback...Ed -<br /><br />The Interrupted Journey, page 298 (hardback) "During this time I become conscious of several things [She is referring to her dream, as all though this account]. First, only one man speaks, in English, with a foreign accent, but very understandably. The others say nothing. I note their physical appearance. Most of the men are my height, although I cannot remember the height of the heels on my shoes. None is as tall as barney, so I would judge them to be 5' to 5'4". Their chests are larger than ours; their noses were larger (longer) than the average size although I have seen people with noses like theirs - like Jimmy Durante's.<br /><br />"Their complexions were of a gray tone, like a gray paint with a black base; their lips were of a bluish tint. Hair and eyes were very dark, possibly black...<br /><br />"They were very human in their appearance, not frightening..."<br /><br />This does not sound like the creature in the faked Alien Autopsy. Sounds like the description of the alien has evolved, not to mention that three dimensional representations created in the 1980's do not match either her physical description or the dummies in the Alien Autopsy.<br />KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-29653012611536422042015-08-23T23:31:53.325-07:002015-08-23T23:31:53.325-07:00Ed -
In regards to your statement, "We'd...Ed -<br /><br />In regards to your statement, "We'd like to know" what is behind the UFO phenomenon, as I have said before the answer is highly complex and not as simple as explaining all events as evidence of ET. <br /><br />The phenomenon is a mix of many things that coalesce.<br /><br />You want to know the answer so bad that you grasp at pure conjecture, fake documents, hear-say, 3rd and 4th hand testimonies, speculation, rumor, ancient myths and legends, and all manner of nonsense to feed your hunger to know....all the while ignoring factual information and scientific data.<br /><br />This is why many think people who follow UFO's are lunatics suffering from a mental disorder.<br /><br />As far as disclosure goes, you already have it. ET's have been a mainstream Hollywood feature for decades not to mention the tens of thousands of Science Fiction books and video games that feature ET.<br /><br />What more do you want?Brian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201018843054563257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-62563193966890451402015-08-23T21:50:59.472-07:002015-08-23T21:50:59.472-07:00Kevin,
You asked for a description of the alien se...Kevin,<br />You asked for a description of the alien seen by Betty Hill as it appeared in The Interrupted Journey.<br />I don't have the book with me but I exchanged emails with Betty many years ago and she told me her abductors looked just like the creature in the "Alien Autopsy".<br />She and KT Frankovich were friends and KT had seen two creatures while walking her dogs. She also agreed that the creatures looked like the AA. Betty also told Philip Mantle that the AA creature looked like the creatures<br />who abducted her.<br />Go to the link I provided and scroll down to see the drawings that are included there.<br /><br />http://www.theironskeptic.com/articles/hill/chronology.htm<br /><br />"The figures, according to Barney Hill were of human form dressed in shiny black uniforms and black caps with peaks or bills on them (which could be seen when the figures turned their heads). The uniforms were like glossy leather… The figures reminded the observer of the cold precision of German officers; they moved smoothly and efficiently and showed no emotion except for one figure operating a lever who, Mr. Hill claimed, looked over his shoulder and smiled… The 'leader' at the window held a special attraction for the witness and frightened him terribly."<br /><br />Why did you ask?<br /><br />Ed<br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386459533231845274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-25293981378404194552015-08-23T20:40:34.074-07:002015-08-23T20:40:34.074-07:00I think cda's comments about literature and TV...I think cda's comments about literature and TV bear more attention. I've become pretty convinced most people don't understand the related dynamics well enough to adequately grasp the relevance. I also don't think most people are consciously aware when it's happening and realize the implications it carries, but cultural conditioning is very relevant, whether or not it's discussed and understood. Jack Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05778028283888927074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11558306.post-34953003933163231662015-08-23T19:09:31.780-07:002015-08-23T19:09:31.780-07:00Ed -
Please provide a description of the alien se...Ed -<br /><br />Please provide a description of the alien seen by Betty Hill as it appeared in The Interrupted Journey.KRandlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333125414889883920noreply@blogger.com