Wednesday, August 05, 2015

Jason Kellahin and his Roswell Tale

(Blogger’s note: Since this has come up, I thought I’d republish, with appropriate updates, the article from my The Roswell Encyclopedia about this. I believe I was the first to interview Jason Kellahin, first briefly on the telephone, and then in his home. I did notice one thing as we walked through his house. There was a copy of The Roswell Incident on his desk, as well as a number of newspaper articles about the Roswell crash that he referred to periodically. Clearly he had been reviewing that material before I had arrived and just as clearly that influenced what he told me based on the documented facts available. That interview was videotaped and a copy was provided to the Fund for UFO Research and does not agree with the affidavit that he signed some time later.)

Jason Kellahin was an AP reporter based in Albuquerque, New Mexico, in the summer of 1947. He received a call from the New York office of the Associated Press telling him that he needed to get down to Roswell as quickly as possible. According to Kellahin, "We [Kellahin and Robin Adair] were informed of the discovery down there...the bureau chief sent me and a teletype operator from the Albuquerque office." Please note that he specifically mentioned the discovery down there.
I interviewed Kellahin in his home more than forty years later and he told me then, "It must have been in the morning because we went down there in the daytime. It would take a couple of hours to get down there..."
Jason Kellahin at his home.
Kellahin continued, saying, "We went down to Vaughn [New Mexico]. Just south of Vaughn is where they found the material."
The ranch, according to Kellahin, wasn't very far from the main highway (Highway 285) from Vaughn to Roswell. They turned from that highway just south of Vaughn, onto the Corona road. They were driving to the west and saw "a lot of cars and went over. We assumed that [this] was the place. There were officers from the air base. They were there before we got there." This does not agree with the affidavit that Kellahin would sign sometime later.
Kellahin described military cars, civilian cars and even police vehicles parked along the side of the road. In one of the fields adjacent to the road, at the far end of it, were a number of military officers, not more than five or six of them. Kellahin left his vehicle and entered the field where he saw the scattered debris.
"This man from Albuquerque with me [Adair], he had a camera. He took some pictures of the stuff lying on the ground and of the rancher who was there...Brazel was there and he [the photographer] took his picture."
Kellahin asked Brazel a few questions, interviewing him there, in the field. "I talked to him. He told me his name [Brazel] and we had been told it was on his ranch."
Convenience store in Vaughn, NM.
Kellahin didn't remember much about what Brazel had said. "About the only thing he said he walked out there and found this stuff and he told a neighbor about it and the neighbor said you ought to tell the sheriff...it was the next day [he] went down to Roswell."
Standing there in the field, near the debris, Kellahin had the chance to examine it closely. "It wasn't much of anything. Just some silver colored fabric and very light wood...a light wood like you'd make a kite with...I didn't pick it up. In fact, they [the military] asked us not to pick up anything...You couldn't pick it up and have identified it. You have to have known [what it was]. But it was a balloon. It looked more like a kite than anything else."
The debris covered a small area, not more than half an acre. The military men were standing close by as Kellahin interviewed Brazel but didn't try to interfere. "They weren't paying much attention. They didn't interfere with me. I went wherever I wanted to go. They didn't keep me off the place at all. Me or the photographer." Kellahin tried to talk to the military people, but they didn't give him any information. "They were being very, very cautious because they didn't know."
He didn't have much time for the interview because the military officers came over and told him they were finished and were going to take Brazel into Roswell. With Brazel gone and the cleanup of the debris finished, there wasn't much reason for the AP reporters to remain. Kellahin and Adair continued their trip to Roswell, arriving before dark.
Kellahin confirmed some of this, saying that "We went down to the Roswell Daily Record and I wrote a story and we sent it out on the AP wire...Adair developed his pictures and set up the wire photo equipment and sent it out."
The story about all this that appeared in the newspaper ended saying, "Adair and Kellahin were ordered to Roswell for the special assignment by the headquarters bureau of AP in New York."
Kellahin, when he left the ranch, had expected to see Brazel in Roswell, the next day, but said, "I don't recall that I did. I think the military was talking to him and wouldn't let him talk to anyone else to my recollection...I saw him there but...there were some military people with him."
Following the story as far as he could, Kellahin talked to Sheriff Wilcox. "When we got down there to the newspaper, he was there. I saw him there or at his office...By that time the military had gotten into it. He was being very cautious."
"It was a weather balloon," said Kellahin. "In my opinion that's what it was. That's what we saw. We didn't see anything else to indicate it was anything else."
Once they finished in the newspaper office, Kellahin returned to Albuquerque and Adair was ordered to return to El Paso to finish his job there. By the time Kellahin arrived in to Albuquerque, there was a new story for him that had nothing to do with flying saucers. Another assignment that was just as important as his last.
There are some points that must be made. The raw testimony from Kellahin must be put into context with that provided by others, including Adair. Both Kellahin and Adair were trying to answer the questions as honestly as they could, attempting to recall the situation as it was in July 1947. However, they are at odds with one another. There clearly is no way for Adair to be both in El Paso as he claimed and in Albuquerque as suggested by Kellahin.
Given the circumstances, there are some things that can be established. A number of newspaper articles about the events, written in 1947, have been reviewed. Although many of them had no by-line, they did carry an AP slug and did identify the location as Roswell. Since Kellahin was the only AP reporter there, assigned by the bureau chief in Albuquerque at the request of the AP headquarters in New York, it is clear that he wrote the articles.
The first problem encountered is Kellahin's memory of getting the call early in the morning. That simply doesn't track with the evidence. Walter Haut's press release was not issued until sometime after noon on July 8 and it didn’t go out on either the news wires until later. George Walsh of radio station KSWS remembered that Haut had telephoned the press release to him “about mid-day.” He copied the press release exactly, as Haut read it to him over the phone. Walsh, in turn called it into the Associated Press in Albuquerque. From there the release was put on the AP wire and that story was published in a number of newspapers.
There is a document, created in 1947, that provides the exact times for some of this. According The Daily Illini, the first of the stories on the Associated Press wire appeared at 4:26 p.m. on the east coast. That would mean that the stories went out from Albuquerque, sometime prior to 2:26 p.m.
That means there would be no reason for the AP to assign a reporter (Kellahin) on the morning of July 8. There was no story about the flying saucer until that afternoon. And, by the morning of July 9, the story was dead and no reason to send anyone to Roswell. The photos had already been taken of the debris in Fort Worth and the information about the nature of the debris had already released to the press. Besides, the story in the July 9 issue of The Roswell Daily Record makes it clear that they, Kellahin and Adair, had already arrived in Roswell, coming down on July 8.
Second is the story that Kellahin saw the weather balloon on the Brazel ranch. His description of the location, south of Vaughn but just off the main highway to Roswell is inaccurate (which is the advantage of having been there myself. I knew what the terrain looked like and how close, or far, it was from the highway.) The debris field, as identified by Bill Brazel and Bud Payne, is not close to the Vaughn - Roswell highway. In fact, the field where the debris was discovered is not visible from the roads around it. It is a cross country drive into a shallow valley.
More importantly, by the time Kellahin could have gotten to that field, the balloon should have been removed if it was just a balloon as described by Kellahin. In fact, according to Marcel and the newspaper articles, the balloon was already in Fort Worth if we believe what has been reported. After all, a balloon wouldn't have taken long to collect and Marcel had done that the day before.
Kellahin said in his affidavit that he had visited Brazel at the ranch house, met Brazel’s wife and young son. That is different from what he told me, and from the neighbors said and what Bill Brazel said. After meeting Brazel at the ranch house, they drove to the field where the debris was found.
Kellahin's testimony of seeing a balloon out in the field is intriguing, not because he is an eyewitness to the balloon on the crash site, but because of what it suggests. If there was a balloon, it would mean that the Army had to bring one in. In other words, they were salting the area, and that, in and of itself, would be important. It would suggest that the Army had something to hide, if they were planting evidence.
Given the sequencing of events, based on the newspaper accounts and other testimony, the earliest that Kellahin could have been in the field was late in the afternoon (around four or five p.m.) on July 8. However, by that time, Marcel and the special flight from Roswell were already in Fort Worth. If the balloon explanation is accurate, then the evidence had long since been collected and there would be nothing for Kellahin to see.
Kellahin also said there had been photographs taken while on that field. These photos, according to Kellahin had been transmitted from Roswell. The photo of Brazel transmitted, however, was one that had been taken, not in the field, but in the newspaper offices. If there were pictures taken in the field they have never been printed. Had they existed, even if of poor quality, they would have been printed. After all, what could be better than pictures of Mack Brazel with the debris in the field? Here was the most persuasive of evidence… Brazel, military officers, standing in the field with the remains of a balloon but apparently those pictures were never printed by any AP newspaper at any time.
By contrast, the seven pictures taken in Ramey's office were printed throughout the country. All seven have been located. Even the fairly rare picture of Irving Newton was printed in Texas newspapers and was used by the editors of Look when they printed their Flying Saucers special in 1966. But those that Kellahin claimed had been taken of Brazel on his ranch with the debris clearly displayed have never been found. That suggests that Kellahin's memory is flawed on this point.
The best evidence available is that Kellahin did not stop at the ranch on his way down to Roswell. He is mistaken about that. The lack of the photographs and evidence about the location of Brazel on the afternoon of July 8 suggest it. The location that Kellahin gives is in error though he does suggest in his affidavit that rather than stumbling upon the field, he was led to it by Brazel. The ranch was not close to Vaughn, and the debris field is not close to any road.
By the time Kellahin and Adair arrived in Roswell and were ready to begin reporting, some of the pressure was off. Ramey, in Fort Worth, explained that the material found in Roswell was nothing extraordinary. The FBI had issued a telex that suggested it was a balloon after discussing all this with Major Kirton in Fort Worth though it doesn’t seem the FBI bought the explanation. No longer was New York demanding pictures. In fact, several pictures had already been taken in Fort Worth.
The interview with Brazel occurred on the evening of July 8, according to the newspaper article in the July 9 edition of The Roswell Daily Record. Brazel was brought in by the owner of KGFL, Walt Whitmore, Sr. Brazel was then interviewed by Kellahin, as well as a reporter for the Roswell Daily Record. The pictures transmitted, those of Brazel and George Wilcox, are ones that had been taken in the office for that purpose. Kellahin wrote his story, which appeared in the newspapers the next day.
With the story dead, Kellahin was ordered to return to what he had been doing. He left Roswell. Kellahin believed that nothing extraordinary had been found and there was no reason for the events to stick in his mind.
The point here, however, is that if you accept any of the Kellahin testimony as fact and use it to bolster a theory, you are building on a shaky foundation. We can document who was doing what and where at the time and Kellahin’s story does not match any of that. Yes, he was in Roswell and yes, he did interview Brazel, but he didn’t see him at his ranch, there are no pictures of Brazel in that field, and the time line suggested by Kellahin is badly flawed.


22 comments:

cda said...

I wonder who supplied him with the newspapers. I wonder who supplied him with THE ROSWELL INCIDENT. He might possibly have bought the latter, but the newspapers?

Do we have any evidence that Kellahin showed any interest at all in the case between July 47 and 40-odd years later when certain interviewers (who?) got to him. If he did not, then someone had 'got' to him before you. If you were among the first five to see him, who were the other four, and did any of them try to 'refresh' his memory and perhaps mislead him? If they tried to plant ETs in his head they appear to have failed.
Maybe we should be thankful for small mercies.

I would say you need to find out who first spoke to him in the late 80s or early 90s. But even this will not really answer the contradictions.

Bob Koford said...

Good Afternoon.

One thing that remains perplexing to me is how, first of all, here is someone who has no real, obvious reason to nake up a story involving this, but items don't appear to jive.

Where are the photos?

Why aren't there mundane artifact photos in the files regarding this case, yet other mundane artifacts are in the files from other cases?

There are just too many strange dead ends in this case. I guess thats why I am still intrigued.

Hope you have a nice day,
Bob

Brian Bell said...

Kevin:

I don’t think this issue is that significant and you have commented on this very subject before. The only difference this time is you are clearly trying to cast doubt on Kellahin as means to imply he was unreliable, and hence the media therefore culpable in an alien cover-up. Let's look at the sequence closer:

July 8:

Between Noon and 1:00 pm – Haut calls Walsh with his “RAAF captures flying disc” press release. Walsh takes it down verbatim.

1:15 pm – Walsh calls the New York AP national office with Haut's story.

1:30 pm – NY AP office calls Kellahin (in Albuquerque) and Adair (probably in El Paso) and directs them to meet up in Roswell to cover the story. (Never mind that Kellahin recalls driving there with Adair. Maybe Adair drove up from El Paso since that’s where he returned to afterwards. Alternatively, perhaps Adair recalls incorrectly and he was with Kellahin and then after Roswell went to El Paso. Besides, Adair claims he arrived by air, which is either incorrect, or he flew from Roswell to El Paso instead).

1:45 pm – Adair leaves El Paso and drives to Roswell to meet with Kellahin (3:50 hour drive); Kellahin departs Albuquerque and drives to Roswell (3:30 hour drive).

4:26 pm eastern time - NY AP issues first press release – the Haut version, that was received by phone call at 1:15 pm Roswell time from Walsh. “RAAF captures flying disc”.

2:26 pm mountain time – same as NY but clockwise two hours later, Albuquerque releases identical Haut press release. Note...NOT Kellahin’s press release, HAUT’S press release. Kellahin is driving down to Roswell at this time. (Never mind Kellahin can’t recall if it was morning or afternoon. He obviously got there in daylight and on the same day).

4:30 pm eastern time - NY AP adds “Haut”, “last week”, and “flown to higher headquarters” to the initial Haut story.

4:41 pm eastern time - United Press releases the Haut story with the 4:30 pm updates.

5:45 pm – Adair and Kellahin arrive Roswell, meet Wilcox at the newspaper and are told where to go to meet Brazel, see the debris field, interview and take photos. Kellahin and Adair drive to the Foster ranch and see exactly what he describes.

Evening of July 8 – Kellahin writes his article and sends it to AP for publication. The following day, July 9, AP releases story describing "frustrated rancher" relating balloon debris just as he saw it and just as Brazel had described.

Meanwhile, in Fort Worth that same day, July 8, Ramey holds a press release showing actual balloon debris from Roswell, press photos taken, and story written for the next morning’s paper. The so called "it's just a weather balloon” story.

July 9 – Kellahin’s story prints simultaneously in some cases with Ramey’s – they both describe balloon debris. UP distributes the Ramey story and AP goes with Kellahin’s story. They are competitors after all. Both stories tell of balloon debris.

I always find it odd that you work your timelines in such a way, presenting questions about certain things that are a bit obvious, casting some sort of mystery behind them. The suggestion that the army purposely took busted balloon debris out there on July 7 or the morning of July 8 to fool reporters is ludicrous.

KRandle said...

Brian -

I sometimes believe that if I said grass was green you would disagree just to be arbitrary.

You forgot that Joyce also took down Haut's press release and his made the wire some fifteen minutes later...

But here's the point you missed. Kellahin's tale as he related it to me, and on videotape is different than that he related in his affidavit. He said that Adair was with him and took pictures of Brazel in the field but no such pictures ever surfaced. He said that as they were driving along, they saw the cars parked by the side of the road and the military standing around looking at a balloon... but the debris field is not visible from any road, even today. If he saw soldiers in a field looking at a balloon, then it was planted in that location, but I don't believe any balloon was planted. Of course that idea was ludicrous but then so is the idea that Kellahin driving down from Albuquerque just happened to drive by the field with the soldiers standing in it.

Kellahin said that he interviewed Brazel in the field, but Brazel wasn't at the ranch and wasn't in the field at this time. He was in Roswell. Besides, those first press releases don't mention Brazel's name, so how would Kellahin know which ranch house to seek out in his affidavit version of events.

Adair said that he flew from El Paso to Roswell but Kellahin said they drove down together...

There is nothing in any of the statements or records that suggest that they drove to the field at all... this is pure invention on your part... not to mention that even in today's world it takes about three hours to get to the ranch from Roswell which means they would have arrived after dark.

But here's an important point. Your time line is not based on fact. It is pure conjecture and not born out in the documentation that is available. When we plug in testimony from the officers involved, it is clear that your time line is badly flawed.

Again, my point was to show that Kellahin, though friendly, had invented his tale based on what he thought MIGHT have happened and not on what HAD happened.

Brian Bell said...

Kevin:

Of the 9 time points listed above, 6 are on the record books as facts - you have quoted them as others have as being factual. The only part you don't like is Kellahin's version which accounts for at least 1 of the 3 not quoted by you, and the remains 2 so inserted based I logical deductions from Kellahin's statements. How is it then you can say "your time line is not based on fact?".

Of course you don't like Kellahin's press report either because it happens to match Ramey's and that wouldn't be supportive of the theory that Ramey lied, switched debris, and coerced Marcel who is smiling in the photos to sit with the junk on the floor.

It's just not supportive enough of the idea that alien space debris was collected and contradicts the reality that what was really reported was indeed sticks, rubber, foil and paper either.

I suppose it's just easier to avoid these inconvenient aspects of those news reports since they don't fit the story line you advocate.

So, just where was Kellahin when he wrote this AP report that you claim can't be correct? Roswell? Albuquerque?

And where did the army get the balloon debris to scatter about along the road side which Kellahin couldn't have seen in the dark?

KRandle said...

Brian -

I have provided the quotes that Kellahin made on videotape about what he did and what he saw. I have looked at his affidavit which contradicts much of what he said. I have shown that he could not have seen the military vehicles from the road he was on because they would not have been visible from there. I have shown that Brazel was not there but in Roswell.

To quote you, "I suppose it's just easier to avoid these inconvenient aspects of those news reports since they don't fit the story line you advocate."

Kellahin's tale is stand alone, flawed, and clearly in conflict with the established facts.

And please stop telling me what I like or don't like about this because you are often off the mark.

And, you still don't get it about the Army scattering the balloon debris along the road. Given Kellahin's statements, that is the only possible source for it and they would have gotten the material from their own weather office. But please understand, I am not saying that they did this, only that if we accept Kellahin, it is the only explanation for it because the real debris was NOT visible from the road, was a good dozen miles or so south of the ranch house (which was 20 or so miles from the road he was on), and Kellahin didn't know who the rancher was because that information was not transmitted until later.

cda said...

Brian:

I think you will agree that Kellahin has based his story much more on what he has read, in books & articles and maybe seen in TV shows, plus (most of all) on what previous interviewers had told him, rather on what he actually did at the time. Notice that in his write-up in the RDR he does not make any mention of going out to the ranch himself, or even trying to.

This has always been the problem with this Roswell tale. Far too many interviewers and busybodies (i.e. numerous writers plus some reporters & journalists in the 80s and 90s) have said things to witnesses and unknowingly planted ideas into their heads. As a result their timelines get screwed up and their thoughts confused.

We still don't know who the other four interviewers were, and I am waiting for Kevin to enlighten us, if he can. My guess is that Kellahin NEVER gave the matter a thought between July 47 and sometime c. 1990.

Let us be thankful that Kellahin, at least, does not go along with ETs.

Neal Foy said...

In 2008 cda said:
"Kellahin’s testimony, and his affidavit, are both highly dubious. If he had been at the ranch his article on July 9 makes no mention of it. Instead we read that Brazel came to the newspaper office and gave his interview there.

It seems inconceivable that Kellahin would have omitted that he (and Adair) had been to the ranch and seen the various AF officers and police there (to say nothing of the pieces of the ‘flying disc‘); i.e. the same people and ‘balloon’ he talks about 45 years later.

My conclusion is that neither of them ever visited the ranch, that their distant memories are false and are taken from what they have read in the papers, as you say, plus perhaps some extra reading of Roswell literature up to that time (1993). ‘Confabulation’ you say and I agree. Also his affidavit claims he was editor of the Roswell Dispatch before WW2. That is a very long way back. How old was he when you met him? Was it possible for him to have been a newspaper editor in, say, 1939?

Also, where are those photos Adair allegedly took at the ranch? I suggest they do not exist and never did. Surely you would have located them long ago, if they had any importance, via the archives (like the Fort Worth photos).

As a skeptic I have no hesitation in rejecting Kellahin’s 1993 testimony. A case of ‘wishful thinking and wanting to be there’ by someone 45 years afterwards."

Now cda leans more toward interviewers being the most influential parties. I find that interesting because despite years of influence which counters his beliefs his basic change seems to come from his debunker friends. That leads me to believe that any influence from an outside party would be more likely to reinforce previously held beliefs rather than change them completely. I would conclude that his contention that writers have influenced witnesses to change testimony counter to what they previously believed is pure rubbish.

KRandle said...

CDA -

I have no knowledge of anyone interviewing Kellahin prior to me and suggested that if I wasn't the first, I was in the top five. I also believe that I was the first to visit him at his home. I believe that he confabulated his story based on what he had read in The Roswell Incident and the newspaper articles he had, including those he had written. I believe his motivation was nothing more than his attempt to assist us in understanding what he had seen and done and that he did not visit Brazel in the field, did not see the remains of a balloon, and did not talk to any of the military officers present at that time. He arrived in Roswell some time around five or six, after Ramey and the boys in Fort Worth had announced their weather balloon explanation.

I have done the same thing, that is compare the first interviews with later interviews with others. J. Bond Johnson, for example, provided an interesting, cohesive statement about what he had seen in Ramey's office until others interviewed him and Johnson decided he had photographed parts of an alien craft. In this case the influence was those who wanted to believe that Marcel was holding some of the actual debris from Roswell as opposed to bits of a weather balloon and radar reflector. Johnson's original story made more sense but we still debate the importance of his claims.

And BTW, Adair said he was in El Paso, flew to Roswell, and met Kellahin there rather than drive down with him so Adair couldn't have been in the field taking the pictures that Kellahin claimed.

Neal Foy said...

Kevin,

I guess I was wrong, at least in the case of Bond Johnson's story.

One thing that bothers me with the balloon story is where is the string? There doesn't appear to be any in the pictures in Ramey's office. Has any witness ever mentioned string or cord in any description of wreckage? It may be a small detail but details can be important. I hope the question isn't off track.

Brian Bell said...

@ Kevin / CDA:

Then the question remains why Kellahin, unlike other "witnesses", didn't sell you the message that he was in the field, handled alien saucer debris, and had his mind read by the lone alien survivor. After all if he made up elements of his story as you state, why not just tell a story similar to the other people?

Given that Many conjured up fictitious stories supporting an ET event, what in your opinion led the man to stick with the original balloon story? Pride in his own reporting work? Bribed or threatened by the CIA?

And someone out there please don't respond with the classic "We don't know 'cause we aren't mind readers." Venture a reasonable guess.

If he read Berlitz and Moore, then clearly he was aware that many others at Roswell that day were telling a different story in their modern day interviews.

Isn't it conceivable the man is telling the actual and literal truth about the debris, rather than "the truth as he knows it or wants you to hear?"

Brian Bell said...

@ Neal:

String you say? Why my good friend that was confiscated by the Army because it wasn't string at all...it was a hitherto unknown substance called optical fiber."

Give it some thought Neal...if you were collecting things to show from a crashed aircraft of some kind, wouldn't you pick up the larger pieces you could carry so you might present a better visual for what the majority of debris consisted of? And technically while it was called "string", this isn't the ball of flimsy white cotton string one buys today at the craft and hobby store. The "string" was a far more durable material given its purpose at high altitudes and under strong winds. Too small...fewer pieces to find...less interesting.


cda said...

Neal Foy:

In 2008 I did not know that others had interviewed Kellahin before Kevin had. I believe that this is the first time Kevin has told us that some others (we still don't know who) got at Kellahin first. So in 2008 we had to assume Kellahin's testimony was influenced solely by what he had read, or seen on TV (plus his original article in RDR). Now we know that he may have been influenced by earlier interviewers. So what I wrote at the time is still mainly correct. Kellahin was guilty of wishful thinking etc. He saw the opportunity to get into the limelight. And Kevin seems to go along with my opinion.

Brian:

I assume Kellahin was not interviewed by Stanton Friedman, because if he had, I am positive he would be far more inclined towards an ET explanation than a balloon explanation. As I said before, be thankful for small mercies.

Neal Foy said...

Brian,

The string would be tied to the target if it was one that had actually been attached to a balloon. So, someone untied it? If there was no string then it may have been a new target and supports the wreckage switch.

KRandle said...

CDA -

I do not know that others interviewed Kellahin before me... I made my suggestion that if I wasn't the first, I was in the top five so that I wouldn't be taking credit that was not due me. I believe I was the first, but I don't know that for a fact. I did observe a copy of The Roswell Incident on his desk, as well as a number of newspaper articles.

I will also note that I don't think Kellahin would have been led in a direction he did not want to go... Friedman would not have convinced him to change his story and that allegation was unnecessary.

And, no, I don't think he cared about the limelight. He had been there in 1947 and was willing to answer questions about it. He provided what he believed to be the truth, but it was clearly a confabulation.

Brian Bell said...

@ Neal

I am of the opinion that what was described in the press reports and shown on Ramey's floor was one and the same.

However I can go along with the premise the material was switched or added to my Ramey. The difference being that if they really did show up with a shoebox sized container and a few rawin target pieces tied in a brown paper bag, Ramey may have supplemented it with target debris obtained at Fort Worth simply as back-up, precaution, or concern what he was getting wouldn't be enough to photograph well, etc.

The entire switch story is complicated by the chief witness, Marcel, who changed his story multiple times before setteling on the claim alien material was swapped out in favor of mundane balloon debris.

It is not inconceivable that a commanding officer would have his ducks in a row in advance of a press conference even before Marcel arrived. The material may have been swapped out, or mixed, explaining Marcel's later recollections.

In that case yes, perhaps a newer target without the strings made its way into the photos.

Brian Bell said...

Kevin:

How can you say "I was in the first five to interview him" and then say "I don't know if anyone interviewd him before me." It seems contradictory.

Perhaps just writing style. Don't know.

But if I said I was in the top five to finish the Boston Marathon, and someone asked who were the others, and I replied that I really didn't know if there were any others, that would be confusing.

KRandle said...

Brian -

Just trying not to make a claim. I know of others who interviewed him before me... I checked various sources and saw that no one had, but someone could still show up who says I talked to this guy in 1989 or something.

I have listed to others claim to be the first to have interviewed someone only to see another source provide an earlier claim. I was the first to interview Gerald Anderson because he told me I was the first to contact him.

Stan Friedman claims he was the first to interview Robert Sarbacher, but William Steinman says he was the first and gave Sarbacher's name to Friedman. Who was first there? I don't know and frankly don't care... it is for them to figure out...

But once again we drift down into trivia. I will say it this way. As far as I know, I was the first to interview Kellahin. First, briefly on the telephone, which was to set up the meeting, and then at his home. I know of no one else who talked to him prior to that.

Now, can we let this nonsense drop? It is not important.

KRandle said...

All -

I have altered the trivial line that has bothered so many. I now claim to be the first to have interviewed Kellahin, first briefly on the telephone and then in his house on videotape. If someone can provide documentation to have interviewed him earlier, then I will update the posting... if not, then it stands and we all can get back to a discussion of what is important.

cda said...

Kevin:

I have discovered that your interview with K was in Jan 1993, as per your "The Truth..." book. I have also discovered that Karl Pflock interviewed him in May 1993. Apart from that, nobody else seems to have spoken to him, either on the phone or in person. But of course, I have not checked everything so, as you say, someone else might have got there before you.

You tell us to get back to a "discussion of what is important". What exactly is important here? It seems very likely that one witness (if you can call him such) has concocted a tale, and made a false affidavit. Thus his testimony is mostly useless. Yet he only claims to have seen balloon material and not an ET craft. What a great pity!

So where do we go from here? Do you consider K's testimony increases, or decreases, the likelihood that an ET craft crashed in the desert? As far as I can see, the ONLY thing we can rely on is his article in the RDR where he interviewed Brazel. All the rest, from 40 plus years afterwards, is next to worthless.

Brian Bell said...

@ Kevin:

Then consider it simply a difference of interpretation by writing style.

@ CDA:

Depending on when Kellahin gave written testimony, given he was a senior at that time, he may not have intentionally given a false affidavit. Age and a failing memory may account for discrepancies.

KRandle said...

All -

I do not think that Kellahin gave a false affidavit. He truly believed what he was saying... it just does not jibe with the facts available. I think that the story, once he got involved in it... meaning after the balloon explanation was in play (after he arrived in Roswell) was so unimportant to him that he just didn't really remember much about it. He refreshed his memory with what he could find including The Roswell Incident and probably the articles he wrote about it (I have most of the articles I have written in various notebooks and files) and gave me, then Karl, what he believed was an accurate account of the events. I don't know where he got the idea that he'd seen Brazel on the ranch, that pictures were taken of the alleged balloon there, or that there were military officers standing around a balloon... that does not track with any of the documentation.