This
week I spoke with Ryan Wood. He had sent out an email complaining about the
anti-UFO bias on Wikipedia. I thought that would be an interesting topic, and
since he is a proponent of MJ-12, I thought we could spend some time on that as
well. But, as usual, the conversation took on a life of its own. You can listen
to it here:
We
veered off into the Cape Girardeau UFO crash of 1941, which, as everyone will
tell you, is six years older than the Roswell case. The problem here is that
there are no first-hand witnesses and while the granddaughter of minister who
was called to scene heard about it from family, the problem is that she heard
about it from family. There really is no documentation in the form of newspaper
articles and diary entries, or anything of that nature. And while I didn’t make
the comment
during the show because, well, we went off in other discussions, I
always worry about these pre-Roswell cases. If this had happened, it would seem
to me that the military might have been better prepared for the events in
Roswell.
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| Ryan Wood. Photo copyright by Kevin Randle. |
Ryan
said that his book, Majic Eyes Only, listed 74 crash retrievals. I
thought that there just weren’t that many because it would be impossible to
keep all that secret for so long. At some point one of those crashes would have
produced evidence no matter how hard the various government agencies attempted
to suppress it all. I did point out that in my book, Crash: When UFOs Fall from
the Sky, I listed something like 110. One of those was an alternative look
at the Cape Girardeau crash. An analysis of that case follows this posting.
Given
there were so many alleged crashes, I asked what Ryan thought were the best. He
suggested Roswell, Kecksburg and Shag Harbour. I mentioned that I thought of
Shag Harbour as more of an emergency landing than an actual crash. But the real
point was that each of these had documentation and newspaper articles while
most of the other crashes were single witness with no documentation at all.
Some were clearly mundane objects seen under unusual circumstances. Some were
clearly meteors, others debris from missile tests, and a few outright hoaxes.
We
finally did make it to MJ-12 and the so-called Operations Manual. I mentioned
that there were some anachronisms in it. Ryan pointed out that skeptics said
the War Department seal on the front was one, but that he had found that symbol
on other manuals printed after the War Department ceased to exist in 1947,
meaning that, in this one case, it might not be an anachronism.
I
wondered about the lack of a provenance for the manual and asked if there were
any MJ-12 documents from a legitimate government source that lead to support
MJ-12. Ryan said that there was a letter from Lieutenant Colonel Robert Blount
to Dr. Robley Evans that did lead to MJ-12. You can see that letter here:
I
believe the top-secret report to which Blount referred is the Air Intelligence
Report (AIR) 100-203-79 with a date of April 29, 1949. There is nothing in it
about UFO crashes or anything like that. Blount seemed to think it was more of
a psychological analysis, which the AIR report is not.
But
there is a real problem with the Blount letter that I’m sure if obvious to
everyone. To sort of prove that point, I think the Hottel Memo makes the case.
Here is an FBI document that mentions a UFO crash. You can read it here:
The
point is, the Hottel Memo refers to the Aztec crash hoax and is based on
information from Frank Scully’s book, Behind the Flying Saucers. Time
magazine, in January, 1950, printed an article about little men from Venus.
That predates the Blount letter and might well be the source of the rumor.
Next
week, John Burroughs is the guest. He’ll be offering some new information about
the Rendlesham Forest events of December 1980. If you have questions for him,
put them in a comment here, and I’ll try to get them answered during the
program.
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6 comments:
Among other things, the biggest problem I have with the alleged MJ-12 documents as they appeared in Stanton Friedman's book is they don't read like a real military manual/document; it is repetitive, wordy, has two introductions and is just plain disorganized. I also can't see having to explain to someone, in fact anyone, how to make a "shipping crate". There might in fact be a real MJ-12 or a similar group, but those documents scream hoax. I ran a very small Navy tech library while stationed at NAS Lemoore, Ca., so I have some background in that area...
Don't bother Mr. Wood with the facts, his mind's made up.
Clarence, if you think everyone knows how to make a shipping crate, you really are as stupid as you appear. Bought anything on ebay recently?....Most people don't even know how to mail an item securely! The lower ranks of the military services are not recruited to think for themselves but first and foremost to follow orders! You of all people should remember that.
Mr Steiger (no relation to author Brad by any chance?) Clever, insightful and informative comments are clearly not your forte! Don't give up the day job!
Paul Jones
Paul Jones: I was paraphrasing the late Stanton Friedman ... if you didn't know (and I rather doubt you did).
P.S. Thank you so much for the unsolicited advice, but if you have any more to proffer, please be so kind as to patiently await my request for it, if you please.
Kevin, I respect your opinion, but I must respectfully disagree with the notion that the Guy Hottel memo refers to the Aztec case. This perspective, often championed by skeptics in an attempt to downplay the importance of the memo, is, in my opinion, fundamentally flawed and internally inconsistent.
To begin with, the Hottel memo explicitly describes the crash of three distinct flying discs, each corresponding to a separate incident. This detail is incompatible with the Aztec narrative, which involves the crash of a single craft. The discrepancy in the number of discs alone is sufficient to disprove any direct connection between the two accounts. Moreover, there is a pronounced discrepancy in the number of beings reported. The Aztec account alleges the recovery of 16 extraterrestrial entities, whereas the Hottel memo describes three beings per disc, for a total of nine across the three crafts. This substantial difference in numbers is another critical indicator that the two narratives are unrelated. Additionally, the descriptions of the clothing of the beings are markedly different. The Aztec story portrays the entities as wearing attire resembling human clothing from the 19th century. In stark contrast, the Hottel memo describes the beings as dressed in thin suits with an almost metallic appearance. This fundamental divergence in the details of their attire further reinforces the conclusion that the memo is not referring to the Aztec case.
Of course, it is entirely possible that Silas Newton might have provided misleading information to the FBI. However, I do not believe that this specific document can be linked to Newton, as the story crafted by Gebauer and Newton differs from what is reported in the memo itself. The details simply do not match. And I am quite sure that William Moore helped to perpetuate the idea that the Hottel memo refers to the Aztec case because he feared that It might have overshadowed his precious MJ-12 documents. In fact, unlike the MJ-12 papers, this document has everything they lack: a clear provenance, no signs of forgery, and official recognition as legitimate, even by the FBI itself.
The only other account involving the recovery of three flying discs comes from a story broadcast by Joseph Rohrer, director of Radio Pueblo and president of the Pike's Peak Broadcasting Company. Rohrer claimed to the press that three flying discs had been forced to land by U.S. military aircraft while flying over the state of Montana in 1952. According to his account, the sole extraterrestrial pilot who survived was kept alive for approximately two years in a massive incubator specifically built in California and later transported to an isolated location. To communicate with the alien, American scientists initially used drawings, and eventually, a team of linguists managed to teach the being how to read and write in English.
Needless to say,, there is no part of this story that aligns with the details provided in the Hottel memo. The memo was published two years before this story was broadcast and makes no mention of three flying discs being forced into emergency landings by military aircraft. Instead, it explicitly describes three flying discs that crashed — in the truest sense of the word — in New Mexico, not in Montana. Furthermore, the memo does not mention any surviving aliens who were taught English by linguists. Rather, it refers to deceased extraterrestrial beings whose bodies were recovered by the military. Therefore, even in this case, there is no indication that the two accounts originated from a common source. The only thing that the two accounts have in common is the mention of three flying discs.
Spartacus01
Normally, I avoid getting into long discussions about cases that I believe go no where. However, Aztec keeps rearing its ugly head, so here is the rest of the story as Paul Harvey used to say. I will note that I did cover this in Alien Mysteries, Conspiracies and Cover-Ups.
According to research conducted by Karl Pflock, some of which he shared with me, the story originated in the Wyandotte [Kansas] Echo. Information was provided by Ruby Fick, who said he learned it from I.J. van Horn and Jack Murphy, who mentioned Coulter, who was, in reality George Koehler, a radio guy in Colorado. It was inspired by a lecture given by a "mysterious" scientist who had lectured at University of Denver in 1950 (prior to the March 22, 1950 date on Hottel's memo." The scientist was identified as Silas Newton, who had been feeding the information to Frank Scully for a couple o years. Return to Scully's original report in Variety, which does talk about three crashes and the like, though none were in or near Aztec. In his book, Scully drops one of those crashes and comes up with the Aztec story as told by Newton. Koehler said that he got his information from Silas Newton, and the circle is complete. Seems to have originated with Newton, worked its way through several different versions and people and was finally back to Newton.
Rather than providing additional information here, you can read the full analysis in the book. I'd also suggest looking at a report written by William E. Jones and Rebecca D. Minshall of the MidOhio Research Associates which provides additional evidence about the origins of the Aztec case.
This, I think, will provide a somewhat different perspective on the Aztec crash, not to mention long time residents of Aztec have failed to confirm that anything like the crash happened there.
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