Sunday, July 22, 2012

Chasing UFOs - Part Two

To be fair to Chasing UFOs, I suppose I should note that they have put up a response which seems to be because so many complained about their Roswell presentation. You can find it at:

But this is really too little too late. They concede the points that we all made about their investigation into Roswell but the mistakes should not have happened.
About the missile test footage, which they had originally said (or rather Ryder said couldn’t be a missile based on what her missile expert said), McGee wrote, “Again, in light of the evidence as detailed above without additional compelling evidence to the contrary, there is no scientifically compelling reason to question the hypothesis that the object captured on film is likely a rocket exhaust plume as viewed during an unusual missile or rocket bounce and crash. (To claim otherwise and invoke extraterrestrial technology is, again, to commit an argument from ignorance.)”
All well and good, but had they checked with White Sands, they would have known where the footage originated and wouldn’t have had to speculate. If they had checked the Internet they could have found the explanation.
McGee explains the initial excitement over the button. Those of us who know our history (and by this I merely mean the separation of the Air Force from the Army in September 1947) knew that no Air Force button would have been lost during the recovery operation. Those of us with military training knew that a button from a Class A uniform would have no significance in the Roswell case.
McGee now tells us, “Buttons of this nature were included on more formal uniform coats, which don’t necessarily make sense under a “hands-and-knees” recovery operation scenario. Field recovery personnel would not have been wearing more formal uniforms.”
Chasing UFOs' pristine Air Force
button. It is from 1949 at the latest.
Or, in other words, those out in the field would not have been wearing a Class A uniform. They would have been in fatigues. The buttons would have been different.
And he tells us, “The button was sent to an expert historian from the National Button Society during post-production, who concluded that the button (based on the manufacturer and button-backing) was at earliest from the year 1949.”
Without having to consult a “button expert” (okay, the unidentified expert clearly knew the history of buttons), many of us knew that the button couldn’t have been dropped during the retrieval. Had anyone been out there in a Class A uniform in July 1947, the button would have been Army and not Air Force.
Which leads back to the question of where did it come from?
Best guess… It was planted out there for them to find. It was planted by someone who knew of Frank Kimbler’s buttons but who had not seen them. It was planted by someone who just went out to buy an Air Force button. Did any of them, James Fox, Ben McGee or Erin Ryder do it?
Of course not.
Can we determine who did it?
Is that is really important now? Had we had some controversy over the button, then yes, it would be important. But, with all of us on the same page, it really becomes a moot point. The button was there, it didn’t belong there, it was from the wrong military service, from the wrong uniform, and it was manufactured some two years after the crash.
We now have the whole story. I do not understand why all this information had to wait until after the broadcast. I do not understand why, at the end, they couldn’t have mentioned these things with a scroll, which everyone seems to want to put at the bottom of our screens today. The information should have been included because it just wasn’t that difficult to find.
But kudos to McGee, and his fellows at Chasing UFOs, for giving us the rest of the story.
(A final and trivial note here. I did attempt to contact both Ben McGee and James Fox and have not heard back from them. I would guess that if you are on a national TV show, the public email addresses are probably overwhelmed with letters and comments. I didn’t expect that I would succeed in getting a response, but hey, I did try.)


Larry said...


Appropos of my previous post and your prompt response:

I agree that the glowing white "object" in the White Sands video could be the exhaust plume of a missile, and not the missile itself--that's why I was puzzled. A small missile (maybe a couple of meters in length) can produce an exhaust plume tens of meters in length. These missiles, which usually contain solid fuel produce an exhaust plume rich in microscopic particles, each radiating at a temperature of several thousand degrees. Taken together, they would therefore produce a strong Infrared (IR) signal. Assuming that it was IR film being used in the camera, the plume would appear to be bright white.

Solid rocket motors typically operate at a chamber pressure of a few hundred PSI. If and when they rupture due to sudden impact, the internal pressure blows the casing apart and spreads the still burning fuel fragments apart in a low-order explosion. Because the fuel fragments are still burning, they would also show up as bright objects on IR film.

I agree that this explanation seems to fit the events seen on the video quite adequately.

Karl Lundmark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Karl Lundmark said...

'm certainly no fan of Chasing UFOs but I did find the button somewhat curious. The military would have had interest in the debris field months (and maybe years) after the initial clean up. Would it then not be possible for an Air Force button of that type to be lost out there? I know it's from a dress uniform and the odds are pretty remote but it's just an observation that I haven't seen put forth before. Thanks!

cda said...

Since we are talking about the Nat Geo documentary, I have recently acquired a National Geographic publication entitled "100 Scientific Discoveries that changed the World". It covers earth science, astronomy, computing, nanotechnology, medicine, physics, engineering and much else.

Alas, not one mention of Roswell, or indeed of UFOs at all. So I have to tell you, Kevin, (or rather the Nat Geo is telling you) that the Roswell event did not change the world. Which may come as a disappointment to you and certainly to Stanton Friedman.

KRandle said...

Karl -

Their point seemed to be that the button was dropped in July 1947. It was not. That others were out in that field, sometime later (and in this case after 1949) doesn't do much except suggest an on going interest in that field. It was more likely planted by someone who didn't know history and didn't understand that a fresh button would reveal its age.


Of course Roswell isn't in there. Had the military announced an alien craft, then it would be. You note is without merit.

Chuck Finley said...

...why don't you point out that those friggin' blouse buttons are sitting around in every g-d Salvation Army store on the continent? or do you still hope to get a 'Roswell Dream Team' cable deal?

AND funny how you will not examine the history of Karl Pflock and your Roswell investigation in the 1990s...

...or did you talk to Milwaukee Magazine too?

KRandle said...

Ahh Chuck =

So full of venom and so clueless. You have no idea what we're doing and what we're learning.

I've talked about Karl's analysis of Roswell on numerous occasions and have taken myself to task for errors of the investigation...

And did you read the latest on Chasing UFOs? Even they admit that the button they found wasn't made prior to 1949 and is irrelevant.

Say, what do you think of Karl's suggestion that Roswell was the result of a crash of the Northrop
N9M Flying Wing... or it was Mogul Flight No. 9?

Just wondering.

Robert Sheaffer said...

A thought on that famous button:

The desert is an awfully big place, even if you think you know 'more or less' where Brazel found the debris. Therefore, whoever planted the Air Force button for the UFO Chasers to find must have known exactly where they would be looking.