Tuesday, July 10, 2012

Roswell and Chase Brandon

In the last couple of days I have been asked about my opinion on the latest Roswell revelation. It seems that a fellow named Chase Brandon (a name that is difficult to believe) has claimed that when he worked for the CIA he had the opportunity to review, search, mosey around in a classified area where he could snoop into whatever file, box or crate that he wanted to.

This is a tale that reminds me of Philip Corso who had the chance to see an alien body when the convoy taking the Roswell creatures to Wright Field stopped overnight (RON, in military terms meaning Remain Over Night) at Fort Riley, Kansas. Some buddy of Corso was prying open the sealed crates that had been removed from the trucks and stored in a building for better security (which obviously didn’t work). This sergeant friend of Corso’s opened one, and then, in a further and more outrageous breach of military security, told his buddy, Philip about it. Corso showed up and did the same thing eventually telling the world about the alien creature he had seen.
So now we have Brandon entering what he said is called Historical Intelligence Collection which is a vaulted area (meaning it is like a bank vault) and that not everyone can get into it. He said he was just wandering around in there, reading the handwritten labels when one caught his eye. According to him, there was but a single word. Roswell.
Crapola, I say.
Why in the hell would they label this box of significant history with a word that, until recently was the name of a Civil War officer and the name of a couple of towns (not to mention Maggie Roswell of The Simpsons fame)?
And, of course, in this box was everything to tell him that it was an alien craft and not one of the super duper secret balloons that had an intelligence function. Nope, there were photographs and documents that proved this was an alien craft.

Of course he has nothing to back up his statement on this except he is reported to have served as a covert operations officer in the CIA’s Clandestine Service for 25 years, and spent his last 10 years as the agency's official liaison to the entertainment and publication industries (which is a real hint). I suppose if you work in the director’s office you have the authority to poke around just about anywhere, even if you are only the liaison to the entertainment industry.
The question that springs to mind is where was this guy ten years or twenty years ago? How come the GAO couldn’t find him to talk to him and how come the GAO didn’t get to look in the Historical Intelligence Collection as they searched for documentation about the Roswell case? Does this mean that the CIA lied to the GAO when they said they had no records about it? Maybe that investigation should be reopened.
The story does provide us with the answer to those questions, however. According to Brandon, he is hawking his science fiction book about alien contact and what happens to Earth when the aliens arrive. Rather than just another first contact book, Brandon now has a hook that will get people talking. He is writing with his knowledge of a real event because he saw a box marked, “Roswell.” Maybe some of this classified stuff made it into the book.
And nope. I do not believe his tale. Just as I didn’t believe Philip Corso’s tale when approached by others as Corso was peddling his book. Sometimes you have to see behind the scenes. This is a case where the veil is nearly transparent. Brandon wants you to buy his book… and though I do read science fiction, I won’t buy this one.

55 comments:

cda said...

There were two other boxes Brandon didn't see.

One was labelled 'MJ-12' (with its obvious relevance to Roswell).

The other was labelled 'Higgs Boson' (this was in fact first discovered by top CIA physicists decades ago but kept secret ever since).

Kurt Peters said...

"Chase Brandon" does indeed sound like a bad cover name made up using the guy's real initials, to avoid the monogrammed shirt compromise.

...maybe hiss real name is:
Charlie Brown;
Charles Berlitz;
Colonel Bragalia????

Kurt Peters said...

yeah, I know; a typo on 'his'

MaxMercury said...

I just looked up Chase Brandon at an on line store and he is also a character of a CIA book by authors Sherri Bigbee and Steve Hicok.

Since Chase Brandon only has one novel just published, I think this is all a publicity stunt and that Mr Brandon is a pen name.

Terry the Censor said...

Hilarious idea by CDA. Other boxes Brandon didn't see but should have:

Nixon Tapes (18.5 minutes only)
Patterson-Gimlin deleted scenes
Noah's Ark shipping manifests
US-Zeta Reticuli treaty (Franklin Mint edition)
Spots on Betty Hill's car: photographs with chemical analysis report

> Mr Brandon is a pen name

There are numerous contemporary articles online about Mr. Brandon's work.

Steve Sawyer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
paul thompson said...

Well said, Kevin. Brandon is a phony who is selling a book, that's all. It is all so transparent, really. Follow the money. Always follow the money.

DocConjure said...

Before passing judgement, people should listen to his C2C interview. It's on YouTube.

Basiclaly Chase Brandone reveals that yes, this is not his real name thought I can't recall what he said his real name was.

As far as the Roswell material goes, he explains that this was material that pretty much survived being thrown away. The box contained documents and photographs and anything else Brandon refuses to reveal.

Brandon also claims to have spoken to a doctor who worked on JFK's body. Brandon claims the doctor confided in him that JFK was shot from the front of the head and not the back per the official explanation.

Now, the interesting thing about the interview he did on C2C was of how little time he spent talking on it. He only brings up Roswell at the very end of the interview.

Now, there is something that Kevin Randle may not be aware of. Brandon goes to great length to try to make the CIA be innocent in any coverup of Roswell. He makes it clear that today's agents should not be punished for the actions of agents of past decades. So I wonder what Kevin would think of that aspect.

The way I view it is that this is a lizard's tail. You know when a lizard is caught it will shed it's tail. The predator will get a nice little snack and the lizard will live to see another day. I think that's what is happening here. We are given a tid bit in order to hide something else and in the process the notion that the CIA is innocent of a conspiracy is enforced.

Dan said...

OK, say you are a covert intelligence agency and you don't trust all your agents. Specifically, some of the crappier ones who haven't quite worked out that the job isn't so much James Bond, man of mystery so much as Fred Bloggs, anonymous file clerk are likely going to be looking for sensational stuff to publish when they retire (which is about five minutes before you sling the useless sods out on their ear).

You therefore need a way to detect potential leakers of information. An easily-detectable load of deniable bullshit that nobody with a brain would believe, but these twerps will swallow hook, line and sinker.

Roswell, in other words.

Way back then you were helping the Army and Air Force with the testing of the Project Mogul listening systems (high-atmosphere sensitive microphones to listen for Soviet nuke testing), mostly the keeping stuff secret side of things. There aren't any records of alien bodies or crashed flying saucers because there never actually were any there; the only flying saucers about were experimental jet-powered things that crashed distressingly often.

So, you get a staffer who wants to write science fiction but who's frankly rather rubbish at plot-lines to cook up some authentic-looking garbage, which you illustrate with slightly-disguised images lifted from the internet. Then you get someone from the dodgy documents department to age the archive for you (twenty minutes in a low oven) and you shake a bit of dust on it and stick it in a low-security box in an archive. You monitor who has access to it, and you monitor the internet for key phrases and specifically the codewords that you laced it with.

See any of those, and you've found your mole. Said mole therefore gets a security clearance downgrade and automatically gets volunteered for all the really crap jobs that come in.

DocConjure said...

@ Dan,

No. It's obvious there was a crash of *something* and so far the military has not provided an adequate explanation, in fact has provided lies.

Whatever it was that crashed it was something that very qualified people could not identify and Project Mogul balloons were composed of easily identifiable material. Not one witness claims that there was any balloon component to the wreckage and Project Mogul was almost "all balloons", like a train of 23 to be exact.

The crash of an ET craft is still on the table and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Terry the Censor said...

As loathe as I am to get involved in a Roswell conversation, I would like to point something out to Doc. I am not advocating one view or the other -- I have no opinion -- I just want to point out what Jim Moseley calls "saucer logic":

> Project Mogul balloons were composed of easily identifiable material. Not one witness claims that there was any balloon component to the wreckage

yet

> The crash of an ET craft is still on the table

Balloons are an established entity, some witnesses do report debris associated with balloons, but we have no balloons from the site so balloons are off the table.
ET craft are not established entities, however, some witnesses do report debris associated with ET craft, but we have no ET craft debris from the site so ET craft are still on the table.

Rob Mitchell said...

I love his his quote “cannot, will not, under any imaginable set of circumstances tell you what I saw in there specifically,” . If I had a quarter for every time I heard that I could play a whole lotta Donkey Kong.

Kurt Peters said...

DocConjure: "...Basiclaly Chase Brandone reveals that yes, this is not his real name thought I can't recall what he said his real name was..."

Thnks, that was the missing piece of the puzzle!

Chase Brandon's REAL name is.....

Higgs Boson !!!!

DocConjure said...

@ Terry The Censor,

It's not "saucer logic". It's common sense. By common sense I'm assuming that you are smart enough not to continue offering blind faith and trust in someone who is an admitted liar. Well, the military admitted they lied.

Not to mention that I'm tired of Mogul being thrown in mine and everyone's faces as if it's PROVEN that's what crashed when in reality the Project Mogul explanation is only a SUGGESTION!

Shall we now dub that "Mogul Logic"?

DocConjure said...

@ Kurt Peters,

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not a supporter of him and I'm not claiming he told the truth. All I'm saying is that perhaps we got the "lizard's tail" on this. Has someone recently gotten very close to something and now the agency wants to throw people off?

DocConjure said...

Okay, Instead of beating around the bush and waiting for someone else to start thinking on my wavelength I will just go ahead and state it.

Were "Chase Brandon's" statements done because the CIA fears that something is about to slip out of the darkness and into the light?

Is Chase Brandon's insistance that today's agents should not be judged based on the actions of the men of decades past some form of 'damage control' to try to manage the public's opinion should this information come forward?

Did we get the "lizard's tail"?

Don said...

"Were "Chase Brandon's" statements done because the CIA fears that something is about to slip out of the darkness and into the light?"

No.

"Is Chase Brandon's insistance that today's agents should not be judged based on the actions of the men of decades past some form of 'damage control' to try to manage the public's opinion should this information come forward?"

Chase Brandon doesn't know that CIA agents weren't around to be involved in Roswell, I guess. Maybe he has a soft spot in his heart for dead CIC agents.

Regards,

Don

Steve Sawyer said...

Part 1 of 3:

Charles “Chase” Brandon's statements, originally on Coast to Coast AM with John Wells, and later to Lee Speigel of the online Huffington Post, are completely absurd on their face.

See: http://bit.ly/MbV4hy
[2 hour Coast to Coast AM interview, 6/23]

And: http://huff.to/NhmVR2
[Lee Speigel / Huffington Post article, 7/8]

Excerpts from the HuffPo article:
---------------------------------------------------------------

It was during this time, in the mid-1990s, that he walked into a special section of CIA headquarters in Langley, Va., called the Historical Intelligence Collection.

"It was a vaulted area and not everybody could get in it," Brandon told The Huffington Post. "One day, I was looking around in there and reading some of the titles that were mostly hand-scribbled summations of what was in the boxes. And there was one box that really caught my eye. It had one word on it: Roswell.

"I took the box down, lifted the lid up, rummaged around inside it, put the box back on the shelf and said, 'My god, it really happened!'"

What exactly did the box contain that had such a powerful impact on Brandon?

"Some written material and some photographs, and that's all I will ever say to anybody about the contents of that box," he said. "But it absolutely, for me, was the single validating moment that everything I had believed, and knew that so many other people believed had happened, truly was what occurred."

~ ~ ~

He remains steadfast about the pieces of the Roswell puzzle he's willing to share, and he emphasizes there's no internal CIA policy that prevents him from revealing any details of what he saw in that box at the agency headquarters.**

"Nobody tells any of us that we can't say anything about sources, methods, classified information having to do with working for the Central Intelligence Agency," Brandon said. "We all sign a secrecy agreement that says we understand we are forbidden to do that by law, and that is an inherent part of keeping and safeguarding what we do, how we do it, why we do it, out of national security concerns.

"I'm not reluctant to talk about it -- I won't talk about it. I'm telling you there was a box that had stuff in there having to do with Roswell, and I looked through it, and it validated everything I believed in, and that's all I have to say about it. I will go to my grave being mindful of the two hats that I wear: My personal one and the one that will forever reside on my head as a former CIA officer."
---------------------------------------------------------------

**[Note: It seems apparent that Speigel misinterpreted, in saying, “…he emphasizes there's no internal CIA policy that prevents him from revealing any details of what he saw in that box…,” and may have been confused by Brandon’s strange double negative, where he says, "Nobody tells any of us that we can't say anything about sources, methods, classified information…" since then Brandon says, "We all sign a secrecy agreement that says we understand we are forbidden to do that by law…” It seems odd that Speigel didn’t catch that "contradiction."]
----------------------------------------------------------------

Brandon's comments about his classified knowledge of Roswell are, of course, absolutely undeniable, moldering horseshit, to put it most politely.

If he was telling the truth, he would have automatically violated his lifetime CIA secrecy oath by what’s he’s already claimed, despite the lack of any details, and would be subject to prosecution.

OTOH, the sub rosa implication suggested to some would be that the CIA couldn’t afford to go after Brandon, as to do so would expose the “cover-up.” Hmmmm. Neat trick, eh?

[This is also termed "gray" or "black" propaganda in espionage and counter-intelligence “info ops,” formerly referred to as "psyops.")

Steve Sawyer said...

Part 2 of 3:

Some are already speculating this might be a “disclosure”-related CIA “limited hangout” op, replete with plausible deniability, but actually that idea is, in effect, a false trail or wild goose chase. Just another simple and cynical diversion, for those who may foolishly buy into it.

If Brandon’s lying, or deluded (or simply examined some rather obvious psyop “bait” in a box marked “Roswell” within the CIA’s HIC vault, and accepted it as real since it supported his quite apparent confirmation bias about ET), then the CIA will yawn, issue some general denial, and leave “believers” to debate the disinformation, thus adding one more putrid fish to the immense school of diversionary red herrings already and perpetually swimming around the Roswell incident. This is all basically yet another distraction. A tempest in a teapot.

As a 25-year CIA veteran of the darker operational side of the CIA, before he spent his final 10 years as the CIA’s media liasion, I’d say Brandon learned his earlier lessons well. Maybe he could teach Annie Jacobsen ["Area 51" author] a few...

But, Brandon’s nebulous claims do functionally serve a couple of "useful" purposes:

1.) They raise Brandon's public profile immensely (there are now nearly 50,000 references on Google to the combined search terms "Chase Brandon" and Roswell) by fabricating (or confabulating) this false story, which could be considered a form of intentional disinformation. Perhaps it amounts to Brandon's personal "info op," for the sensationalistic purposes of promoting and marketing his new sci-fi book, "The Crypto Conundrum" [TCC]. Or, maybe believes his own lies, or perhaps has been used by the CIA.

Oh, and guess what? He’s got a sequel in the pipeline – he’ll be coming out soon with a follow-up book titled “The Hour Glass.” From the reviews and excerpt of “TCC” I read online at Amazon, it seems his first book is a relatively poorly-written action potboiler. I’d guess he needs all the self-promotional help he can generate, as the book[s] won’t do well on merely their literary merits, IMHO.

2.) More importantly, this initial PR blitz and sensation also allows Brandon (and the CIA?) to further muddy the waters about Roswell, as noted above.

Either Roswell was the crash of an advanced non-human object of some kind, or it wasn't, right?

By Brandon presenting a specious tale (of finding a box in the HIC vault with the word "Roswell" on it, the one time he was allegedly alone in the vault [which also violates the "two-man rule" for special Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF, areas] and then claiming he "rummaged" around in it, finding documents and photos which "confirm" his apparently pre-existing "belief" that Roswell was an ET crash), he creates a specific kind of absurdist "cognitive dissonance" -- I mean, does anyone really believe, if Roswell was a genuine ET crash, that it would be noted on a list of vault contents directing Brandon to a box simply marked "Roswell" within which some vague and undisclosed proof or "evidence" of an ET crash was contained?

Or that Brandon would be able to gain unsupervised, casual access to a CIA SCIF vault's materials? Or, that if such a box was examined by Brandon, that it wasn’t intentional disinfo?

[Any such actual or genuine data or material, if it exists, would be within an alarmed, special safe with extreme, highly-controlled access by only those on an authorized “read in” list of specific SCI/SAP “need to know” personnel within a SCIF vault, not something sitting in a box on a shelf that just anyone with general SCIF access could peruse by themselves at their leisure. Brandon’s claim is bogus.]

Of course not. That's the initial setup, to create a ridiculous, highly-charged scenario.

Steve Sawyer said...

Part 3 of 3:

Even if there was such a box (which I highly doubt), did it not occur to Brandon (or Lee Speigel, who you'd think should have raised this issue with Brandon) to consider the liklihood that it might very well be a deliberate plant, or disinformation, a psyop test of sorts, for both gullibility and security vetting purposes? Logically and rationally, that should have been an essential, primary question to be asked. There are video cameras, multiple alarms, internally-alarmed specialized safes, and various other detection sensors in intelligence SCIF vaults, after all, to prevent such unauthorized access.

Bottom line: I suspect Brandon is simply lying about finding any Roswell evidence in a box at the CIA’s HIC vault. Look at it this way: he’s now retired from the CIA, living on a pension and social security, he has a fictional sci-fi book out that, until his PR blitz, probably was not selling very well since it’s not well-written or plotted, and now there’s a second book, a sequel, coming out with similar themes.

What might goose his financial opportunities more than a sensational “revelation” (minus any details or substantiation, of course) on C to C, in the HuffPo, etc.? He’s certainly created a mild media buzz, at least for the moment. So, I see this as someone fabricating a story for the attention it will bring to him, and in order to goose his book sales. A case of disinfotainment by a former clandestine CIA operative willing and able to lie and exploit interest in the Roswell incident to attempt to enrich himself. I sincerely hope his ploy fails, and that seeking his “15 minutes of fame” is up real soon now. As Kevin notes in his blog article, Brandon’s tale is “crapola.”


Update / Addendum:

The CIA has now issued a press statement (in response to an email inquiry from and signed by Robbie Graham, Matthew Alford, Grant Camerson, and Victor Viggiani) by denying Brandon's statements: "Jennifer Youngblood of the Agency's Office of Public Affairs said that official historians have checked their files but ‘found nothing in the Agency’s holdings to corroborate Mr. Brandon’s specific claims.’”

Robbie Graham commented: “The CIA have done exactly what we expected they would do. They’ve refused to address our questions and they’ve brushed aside Brandon’s claims without directly calling him a liar.” He added: “It’s interesting that they say they actually checked their archives for the ‘Roswell box’ Brandon described – that must have been a weird library trip.”

See:http://silverscreensaucers.blogspot.com/ [for further details]

Billy Cox's "DeVoid" newest column also discusses these issues, and the CIA's vague and indirect "denial" of Brandon's false claims.

See: http://bit.ly/NfNTJB

Steve Sawyer said...

I drafted the 3-part comment above yesterday, and since then, when doing a second Google search with the terms "Chase Brandon" and "Roswell" the number of hits has now increased to 62,400, or more than an additional 12,000 references just overnight. Amazing.

Grant Cameron has also written an intriguing article about Chase Brandon on his presidentialufo.com website:

See: http://bit.ly/PxeuUq

cda said...

Why no comments on the Brandon affair from Stanton Friedman? Why none from David Rudiak? I expect the former would go ecstatic if the said Roswell box had another one next to it labelled "San Augustin 47".

Steve Sawyer said...

You're such a... joker, CDA. 8^}

Don said...

I respect his PR agent on a professional level. Well done. The target audience was probably not the casual UFO or Roswell fan, but agents and producers. He's showing them he knows the game.

I expect to see them work the Disclosure crowd because they are intellectually defenseless and subject to fits of paranoid speculation.

Regards,

Don

Ron P Milione said...

It is a bunch of BS!

Ron P Milione said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DocConjure said...

What I find most interesting about Chase Brandon's claims is not the damn box. It's the seemingly preemptive "damage control" comments on how we shouldn't judge the agency and agents today for past acctions. When's the last time an agent, or former agent, has ever said anything like that?

David Rudiak said...

Why no comments on the Brandon affair from Stanton Friedman? Why none from David Rudiak? I expect the former would go ecstatic if the said Roswell box had another one next to it labelled "San Augustin 47".

Well, you've drawn me out of the shadows CDA. Why no comment? Because there isn't much to comment on since there isn't much to work with. As a result, everybody is reduced to speculation as to "Chase Brandon's" motives.

As for the CIA being involved in early July 1947 in a Roswell coverup, no, because they didn't quite exist yet, but were voted into law 2 weeks later when the National Security Act finally passed. Their smaller predecessor, the Central Intelligence Group, which replaced the war-time OSS, was around, and we know was involved prior to 1947 in investigating the European "ghost-rocket" phenomenon. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg was then director of CIG and writing memos concerning the ghost rockets, before becoming Air Force vice chief of staff. Who was running the show at the Pentagon at the time of Roswell when C/S Spaatz was out of town--Vandenberg.

One of the people investigating the ghost rockets for Vandenberg was Gen. Jimmy Doolittle. Who was Vandenberg conferring with the day after Roswell, July 9? Jimmy Doolittle.

There is a long list of such "coincidences" surrounding Roswell, such as Vandenberg calling a sudden meeting of the Joint Research and Development Board chaired by Dr. Vannevar Bush (Mr. MJ-12) on the morning of Roswell, July 8, simultaneous with the general staff meeting over at Roswell. Or the fact that Spaatz, supposedly on vacation fishing, wrote a letter to Vannevar Bush July 7 (contents unknown), or that the Pentagon right after these meetings issued a press release that the flying saucers definitely were NOT "space ships", followed by the Roswell press release that--uh hum--well we have one in our possession, much detail in Vandenberg's log on July 7 trying to kill a hoax disc story from a newspaper in Houston, but nary a word about Vandenberg dealing with the press release from his own base that they had one (even though the newspapers reported Vandenberg definitely involved), and so on.

Nothing to see here, move on.

As for Chase Brandon wanting to exonerate the CIA, well we know they were involved in the general cover-up from at least the 1953 Robertson Panel on. The first CIA director Roscoe Hillenkoetter wrote a letter to Congress in 1960 essentially admitting that there was a coverup and UFOs were real. Keyhoe detailed how in 1962 the CIA worked to derail a Congressional investigation using Hillenkoetter as a key witness.

Another CIA operative, Victor Marchetti, wrote a tattle-tale book about CIA covert operations that ended up being heavily by the CIA before publication. Later Marchetti would write that rumors were rampant in the CIA about crashed UFOs and recovery of alien bodies, though he didn't have any direct knowledge.

So some part of the CIA knowing about Roswell and maybe helping to cover it up--sure, why not, even if Brandon is lying about his Roswell box of goodies.

alanborky said...

Kev there is at least one other possibility of course.

In my late teens I had a terrific fondness for a cream substitute called Tiptop but the person I KNEW was helping themselves to it constantly denied this.

So I wrote atop the tin "F*ck off So-and-so you filthy thieving bitch!" and placed it right out the way on the topmost shelf we had.

Next thing you know the culprit comes hurtling in complaining of false accusations - until I pointed out the only way she'd've been able to read my message was if she'd been standing on a stool nicking it.

The point of the story being maybe some of these crated alien sightings were real.

Maybe some of them were dummies being used in psy-op mindbender programs.

But maybe just maybe some of them were planted there so anyone regularly entering the place without clearance would eventually give themselves away by telling an unbelievable story...

David Rudiak said...

It might pay to quote former CIA director Roscoe Hillenkoetter on the coverup and reality of UFOs. New York Times, Feb. 27, 1960:

http://www.wanttoknow.info/600228nytimes

"It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings. ...Behind the
scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense. ...to hide the facts, the Air Force has silenced its personnel" through the issuance of regulation.

Hillenkoetter was on the board of directors of NICAP at the time, and his letter to Congress followed after NICAP had revealed that the inspector general of the Air Force had issued a regulation stating that UFOs were "serious business" directly related to the nation's defense. (Yes, that's where Frank Edwards got the title of his book, "UFOs--Serious Business".)

As for the CIA in 1962 killing a probe that Keyhoe and NICAP were trying to get going using Hillenkoetter to spearhead it, this is detailed in Keyhoe's "Aliens From Space", Chapt. 6, "Invisible Control". I did a summary of this back on UFO Updates in 1997:

http://ufoupdateslist.com/1997/apr/m14-017.shtml

Correction: Concerning ex-CIA agent Victor Marchetti and his book on the CIA, I left out the word "censored". The CIA took Marchetti to court pre-publication and the book was heavily censored, the first time this had ever publicly happened in U.S. history. Still, Marchetti's book led to Senate committee hearings on the CIA chaired by Sen. Frank Church. Among the revelations of the Church committee (which had to be dragged out of the CIA) was that they had 400-500 U.S. newsmen on their payroll.

And that is one way covert ops can manipulate public opinion on whatever.

Don said...

David wrote: As for Chase Brandon wanting to exonerate the CIA, well we know they were involved in the general cover-up from at least the 1953 Robertson Panel on."

None of us are likely to be alive when the secret history of the CIC/OSI is published, if it ever is, but I'd guess the CIA's Robertson Panel was their Toilet Seat Memo, courtesy of the CIC/OSI.

So, yes, they were involved in the cover-up, only not as protagonists. I wonder if they ever figured it out.

Regards,

Don

cda said...

DR writes:

"There is a long list of such "coincidences" surrounding Roswell, such as Vandenberg calling a sudden meeting of the Joint Research and Development Board chaired by Dr. Vannevar Bush (Mr. MJ-12) on the morning of Roswell, July 8".

There is no need for quotes around 'coincidence', because this a perfect example of a coincidence that never was.

Dr Bush had nothing to do with Roswell. It is highly probable Bush had never even heard of the case during his lifetime.

His sole connection is via MJ-12 (!). And this is because, being a top scientist and adviser to the government, the MJ-12 forger chose his name deliberately (as a result of the infamous Wilbert Smith memo). Does it not occur to DR that maybe the forger ALREADY KNEW from his archival researches that Bush was at this meeting on July 8?

The 'coincidence' is in fact a coincidence in reverse.

As for Hillenkoetter's departure from NICAP, Keyhoe naturally put this down to pressure from the CIA. Never once did he consider that H had got fed up and disillusioned with NICAP and wanted out. But then Keyhoe was a conspiracist.

Kevin:

It has happened again; you brought up the subject of apples and we are now talking about oranges.

Don said...

CDA "It has happened again; you brought up the subject of apples and we are now talking about oranges."

What is this strange obsession you have with being "on topic"? On this blog the usual "topic" is some personal squabble between Kevin and one of those people who have names like weird acronyms: Korff, Pflock, Klass (seriously, are those names nom de plumes or real?), ie, personal matters, or on something none of us are likely to have experienced, like the Roswell Festival, or subjects whose total word count in the universe for us to consider is like 100 (Corporal Pyles, Chase Brandon, the nuns diary, etc).

Kevin can go to the dashboard and turn off messages on most of those "topics" and my heart would still go on.

Regards,

Don

Kurt Peters said...

...methinks Cheese Branson is simply trying to distract from the recent announcement of his successful older brother's new Virgin Galactic trips to space service....

Kurt Peters said...

Mr. Rudiak:

...you seem to have done a lot of work and have a lot to say, so maybe you could start you own blog, like Randel, where we can read your stuff???

David Rudiak said...

cda wrote:
His [Vannevar Bush's] sole connection is via MJ-12 (!). And this is because, being a top scientist and adviser to the government, the MJ-12 forger chose his name deliberately (as a result of the infamous Wilbert Smith memo). Does it not occur to DR that maybe the forger ALREADY KNEW from his archival researches that Bush was at this meeting on July 8?

Well the mind reels at the strange (il)logic here. Well yes, if you know about the Wilbert Smith documents (that came to light around 1978), which name Bush as heading a supersecret saucer research group within the DOD's Research and Development Board, then you would logically select Bush as a member of "MJ-12", which came out in 1984.

But who would make the connection with some tiny obscure item in Vandenberg's typed daily log, which I don't think anybody looked at for years afterward, that the Joint RDB met on the morning of Roswell, simultaneous with the Roswell morning meeting, replacing another meeting that was in Bush's written appointment calendar. I went over the log and calendar at least a dozen times before that finally popped out at me.

Or how many would also be aware that right after this the Pentagon press room issued a press release that the saucers were not space ships? In some of these same UP stories, which are relatively rare and hard to find, were statements by one of the JRDB members now ridiculing the saucers. Then followed the Roswell press release that they had one.

Also, who would know about AAF C/S Spaatz writing a letter to Vannever Bush on July 7 when he was supposedly on vacation, or N.M. Senator Dennis Chavez suddenly asking for a private appointment with Truman on the afternoon of July 7 (granted on July 9)? Or what about Vandenberg meeting with Doolittle on July 9&10? Is it just another coincidence that both were involved in investigating the "ghost rockets" the year before when Vandenberg was head of the Central Intelligence Group?

How about Curtis LeMay briefing Vandenberg before that JRDB meeting the morning of July 8? Aviation research was under the direction of LeMay. How about Gen. Lawrence Craighie flying out out to Roswell from Wright Field under LeMay's directions, according to Craighie's private pilot, then flying back to Washington at night? Both LeMay and Craighie were members of the JRDB and I'll bet Craighie was at the suddenly-called JRDB meeting.

All this and much more was culled from multiple sources (not just Wilbert Smith and Vandenberg's papers) , with help from research tools like the Internet, which didn't exist (except in very primitive form) back when MJ-12.

The point is, the possible connection between the Wilbert Smith memos and the MJ-12 papers stand quite alone from and need no assistance from any other historical items far more obscure to researchers. It was many years before I made these connections, or other connections that there were many suspicious "coincidences" going on in Washington at the time of Roswell. The list goes on.

What was spoken of at that JRDB meeting July 8? The only thing I know of was uncovered by Bob Koford from a book on the history of Cape Canaveral. The JRDB ordered the War Department to build an orbital missile launch facility.

It was 10 years before the U.S. achieved orbital flight. Which begs the question, what was the great urgency in Vandenberg calling an unplanned meeting of the JRDB to create a policy decision that we go into space ASAP, just by "coincidence" on the morning of Roswell when the Pentagon was also declaring the saucers were definitely not space ships?

David Rudiak said...

Getting back to the the involvement of the CIA in UFOs, we have it from Harry Truman's AF advisor, Gen. Robert Landry in an interview with the Truman Library, that Truman ordered Landry in early 1948 to provide quarterly briefings on "UFO data" collected by "Central Intelligence," which I presume meant the newly constituted Central Intelligence Agency.

It beggars disbelief that the CIA wouldn't be doing some collection of UFO data when other intelligence agencies at the time were: the FBI, the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, etc. Also we know the CIA's predecessors, the OSS and CIG, were investigating earlier UFO's like the foo fighters of WWII and ghost rockets of 1946, and I would guess these files would be passed along to the CIA when it was formed in 1947.

Another interesting revelation from Landry was that Truman ordered him to provide these briefings orally only, unless it was so complicated it needed to be written down.

Thus the very security conscious Truman didn't want to leave a paper trail. (And likely neither did Vandenberg by not saying a word about dealing with Roswell in his daily log, even though the newspapers prove that he did get involved.)

Grant Cameron has scoured the Truman Library looking for documented evidence of these briefings by Landry, but can't find any. Thus all we have is Landry's word that they took place. I suppose the typical debunker would argue that without written corroboration, Landry just made up these UFO briefings.

Chase Brandon's "confession" is again that of the lone "whistleblower", except is he a whistleblower or just some "ex-CIA" guy selling books? Conceivably he is both, as Grant Cameron argues on his Presidential UFO website. Maybe Brandon was ordered by someone to release his little tidbit about the CIA's "Roswell box" with photos and documents revealing that Roswell was real, perhaps to continue a gradual disclosure process. Brandon would be violating no security oaths in doing so (since no such Roswell box existed that he stumbled over in CIA archives), and the CIA has perfect plausible deniability. (And maybe his reward for his little white lie is selling more books.)

So the public doesn't know what to think for sure, but the seed is planted anyway that maybe Roswell is real because some long-time CIA guy said so.

But as I said originally, all any of us can do is speculate about Brandon's motives.

Don said...

David wrote: "It beggars disbelief that the CIA wouldn't be doing some collection of UFO data when other intelligence agencies at the time were: the FBI, the Army, the Air Force, the Navy, etc. Also we know the CIA's predecessors, the OSS and CIG, were investigating earlier UFO's like the foo fighters of WWII and ghost rockets of 1946, and I would guess these files would be passed along to the CIA when it was formed in 1947."

We know they did. The question is: why? We know those meetings were held. We don't know why. There were policies regarding UFOs and we don't know why.

At least, I don't.

If it is true policymakers had ET, then everything else going on -- the stuff in the history books -- is irrelevant to our lives, unless it can be connected to ET.

The only person I know of who it seems attempted to deal with this issue was Brad Sparks, who I hoped would write it down and publish...produce a methodology I could use, because I am not knowledgeable enough, nor do I have the time, to do it for myself. But he's left the room.

"Chase Brandon's "confession" is again that of the lone "whistleblower", except is he a whistleblower or just some "ex-CIA" guy selling books? Conceivably he is both, as Grant Cameron argues on his Presidential UFO website. Maybe Brandon was ordered by someone to release his little tidbit about the CIA's "Roswell box" with photos and documents revealing that Roswell was real, perhaps to continue a gradual disclosure process."

Predictable. It's In The Script, so it's been baked into the Disclosure pie. Apparently it only takes an hour or two reading blogs to accept it. I'll wait for someone to spend a weekend, at least, doing some research and analysis on it. Maybe someone will, but it hardly seems worth the effort.

Some guy said he saw something that convinced him Roswell was ET. Because 'CIA' and 'Roswell' appear in the same sentence said by an ex-CIA bureaucrat, Disclosure is coming. Great. Where's my white gown? Head for the hills and await The Rapture.

"So the public doesn't know what to think for sure, but the seed is planted anyway that maybe Roswell is real because some long-time CIA guy said so."

Maybe the Ripley clone on the new UFO NatGeo show will bust some chops and find out for them.

On another blog, I wrote "As if anyone needs to be ordered to disinform on Roswell".

Regards,

Don

David Rudiak said...

Don wrote:
Predictable. It's In The Script, so it's been baked into the Disclosure pie... On another blog, I wrote "As if anyone needs to be ordered to disinform on Roswell".

More half-baked Script: I'm sure we'll also see all sorts of theories to the effect that this is a counterintel attempt to keep the Roswell/UFO "myth" going to conceal our secret projects, confuse our enemies, smoke out Russian/Chinese/N. Korean (choose enemy of the month) spies, etc. etc.

Believe me, the Russian, Chinese, et. al. already know one way or the other through their own massive military and intelligence apparatus whether UFOs are real craft and not made by any nation on earth (though I'm not sure Captain Nemo has been totally ruled out). No Chase Brandon off-hand remark about Roswell will influence them one way or the other.

Don said...

About what the public thinks. Here's an article on the NatGeo poll:

http://tinyurl.com/89vo949

Note the references to UFO movies, and that this is part of the PR for a UFO "reality" show.

As for Roswell, if the public saw a tv show on Socorro, they would probably wonder why the show was referring to Roswell as Socorro.

For the public Roswell is entertainment -- infotainment, reality tv, because look at the old newspapers and the RDR headline on the screen, therefore, Roswell is real and true. There is no need to officially disinform the public on Roswell. TV and the movies and websites do it constantly. They don't even have to be encouraged by "ops". They've turned it into trash for cash, hand in glove with ufologists, believer and debunker.

I do not think any branch of service or government in the US gives a rat's ass what ufologists or the public think or believe or write about UFOs anymore. I am not sure they ever did, at least not because 'they knew too much about the saucers'.

They were, and are, however, interested in disinforming each other.

If Brandon is disinforming, then maybe its about that part of the poll concerning the Presidential candidates. Maybe the CIA wants Obama re-elected. Concurrent with Brandon is the story highlighted by Matt Drudge that Obama was a CIA agent.

Regards,

Don

Don said...

David wrote: "Believe me, the Russian, Chinese, et. al. already know one way or the other through their own massive military and intelligence apparatus whether UFOs are real craft and not made by any nation on earth (though I'm not sure Captain Nemo has been totally ruled out). No Chase Brandon off-hand remark about Roswell will influence them one way or the other."

I agree. But not all the players, those besides the majors, can know with certainty. Among the majors who know, it doesn't mean that all of their government and military agencies and corps know, which is what I mean by they can be interested in disinforming each other (including within their own governments and militaries) rather than directly the public. In that sense, there is no such thing as "the government" or "the military" which knows.

Consider my scenario: We have a poll with the opinion that one candidate rather than the other is a better choice to be in office during an alien invasion. Out of left field comes the rumor that Obama was a CIA agent (and as everybody knows, once an agent, always an agent). And we also have Brandon's conversion to 'believer'.

Let's see what comes next (if anything), even on TV.

Regards,

Don

David Rudiak said...

If Brandon is disinforming, then maybe its about that part of the poll concerning the Presidential candidates. Maybe the CIA wants Obama re-elected. Concurrent with Brandon is the story highlighted by Matt Drudge that Obama was a CIA agent.

Sounds about as believable as the continual Exopolitics crap that the CIA knew Obama was going to be President a long time ago because of their time travel program, and their latest nonsense that Obama was part of the CIA's teleport program to Mars along with the current Exopolitic "whistleblowers", like Andrew Basagio.

Pass the popcorn.

Don said...

David wrote: "Sounds about as believable as the continual Exopolitics crap that the CIA knew Obama was going to be President a long time ago because of their time travel program..."

..laughing..

At least mine is actually in the news 8-)

and is about as likely as Brandon being anything more than a guy with a bright PR agent and good portrait photographer.

Regards,

Don

David Rudiak said...

Yeah, next they'll be accusing George Bush Sr. of being CIA.

Wait a second....

cda said...

Let's face it. Anyone (yes anyone) who has, or had, any connection, however slight, with one of the US intelligence agencies and who afterwards makes a statement on, or writes something on, UFOs becomes a 'suspect' in the eyes of the conspiracy brigade.

What chance have people like Hillenkoetter, Menzel, Vannevar Bush, George Bush (sr or jr), Weaver, McAndrew, Pflock, Robertson, Alvarez, plus loads of others too numerous to mention, of escaping this label?

Even Kevin suffers a little. He was in the USAF. He did this or that with so and so. Bill Moore? A double agent, wasn't he? Therefore both are under suspicion as working for the 'other side'. And so it goes on.

In fact nobody can ever be trusted to tell their real thoughts or real knowledge about Roswell. We are all likely to be 'suspects' of some kind.

This applies even if we are from a foreign country. Are you listening Gilles?

Gilles. F. said...

CDA: Are you listening Gilles?

Greetings,
Yes Christopher, but I cant more comment it or it would become suspect... ^^
Interresting thread and comments BTW.
All the best,
Gilles

Don said...

CDA wrote: "In fact nobody can ever be trusted to tell their real thoughts or real knowledge about Roswell. We are all likely to be 'suspects' of some kind."

Oh, yes, I agree.

I don't know how many times skeptics have badgered me to come clean about my real opinion of Roswell.

You know, sometimes I suspect they think I'm secretly an ETH'r.

Regards,

Don

KRandle said...

CDA -

I have never fudged on my military service, first as a helicopter pilot with the Army, then as an intelligence officer for the Air Force, and intelligence officer in the Army, and finally in the Provost Marshal office.

I have been accused of being a member of the mythical MJ-12, a government agent attempting to divert attention from the mythical Plains of San agustin crash, and my favorite, working on Project Blue Book with Hector Quintanilla.

TheNurse said...

Kevin, dear boy, wouldn't you agree that for the sake of full disclosure you should explain a bit more about your position as "an intelligence officer for the Air Force"? One should not like to give any false impressions to those functionally unfamiliar with military nuances, eh?

I have heard that during this period you were actually in the Air Force Reserves, and that you were a one weekend per month intelligence officer somewhere in the midwest, correct? Not exactly what is considered active duty by those, like Ramey, Marcel, Haut etc. who WERE on active duty with what was then the Army Air Force (later to become the USAF).

I'd say you might clarify this a bit to avoid any misunderstandings later.

KRandle said...

The Nurse -

I'm not sure what your snarky little point is here. I served in a combination of active duty, reserve time and National Guard time. I served as an intelligence officer on active duty with the Air Force, and in the reserve. I served as an intelligence officer on active duty with the Army and in the National Guard... So, what is your point?

Unlike Marcel, Sr., and Haut, I served long enough in various components to have earned a military pension...

And I might point out that I served in combat in two wars...

So, again, what is your point?

Alan Brain said...

HI Kevin,

I would like to contact you through email but I could not find your email adress. I have a spanish content website about UFO related topics and I would like to do an interview with you. Some weeks ago, I interviewed Robert Barrow and the interview was very welcome by my spanish speaking readers.

We have a professional translator who translates the interviews from english to spanish.

My email adress is alanbrain@losdivulgadores.com

Thanks for your time.

Alan Brain

Nick Redfern said...

On the matter of who is speaking the truth re crashed UFOs etc, my new post at Mysterious Universe may be of interest:

http://nickredfernfortean.blogspot.com/2012/07/a-crashed-ufo-or-government-plant.html

arcphoenix said...

Anyone see their arizona episode? No doubt in my mind that the show's crew launched that chinese lantern. It' one thing to act goofy and find nothing. It's quite another to actively plant evidence for ratings. This Ryder woman is the worst and I hear she is involved with the production. Silly show, infuriating to common sense seekers of facts.

Claire Carton said...

Mr randle, I really hope you will see my comment , I think there's more to the story.
Chase Brandon was involved in the mysterious dissappearance and homicide of screenwriter Gary Devore.
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/fbi/4315/hollywood_hitmen.html

Some of the comments here were tl;dr so apologies if this was noted here already.

His role in devore case seems equally bizarre and absurd. But isn't that how disinformation is typically run? I dunno, just a thought. Great blog.

Reticuli said...

I've seen Chase Brandon in documentaries, including ones done with agency cooperation. He’s as common a face associated with the CIA to me as Milt Bearden or Robert Baer. He was a senior officer with a long career whose post-operations, pre-retirement job after his first 25 was up was to tell video and film crews what it is that the CIA does. If you don't recognize his name or at least his face, then that says a lot more about you than about him.
As for why he didn't speak out back in the 1990s during the GAO investigation, that was when he still worked at the CIA.
The most interesting part of Brandon’s claim is that these appear to have been original eyewitness accounts & reports concerning what people onsite saw. One assumption I’ve long made is that much of the Roswell story, particularly concerning bodies, was added to the narrative long after the initial incident… that the story has changed and “kept up” with the prevailing sentiments of the wider field, not that it contained a core, unchanged claim, and thus was likely being made more out of than was actually ever there.
However, the posthumously-released affidavit of Haut (not a relative relaying information second hand) and now Brandon’s statement both indicate this was originally part of the eyewitness accounts. Assuming he didn’t just completely misinterpret more recent news clippings or some box full of research material someone had just recently collected for an agency open-source project on the subject concerning, say, public relations, then I am rather shocked by this revelation.