Friday, July 17, 2015

Area 51 and History 2

I was watching one of those old UFO programs on History Two, which I think is where they now dump most of their crap. Anyway, this program was about Area 51 and when it was over, I thought about what I had learned.

The highly secret base had runways, hangars, and other buildings. What a stunning bit of information.

The “camo dudes” who watch those getting close to the base perimeters were dressed in camouflage uniforms… like the major of the military serving at the time. There is no significance in the fact they were dressed in camouflage other than they were working security at the base.

The Janet flights that brought the workers into Area 51 were so highly classified that the registration numbers of the aircraft were visible to those in a nearby hotel and the owners of the aircraft (the US government) could be traced on Internet web sites accessible to anyone with a computer and the ability to type.

A huge building, probably another hangar, had been constructed recently but no one outside the base knew what it was for.

A former employee and engineer at the base confessed that during some highly classified experiments at the base they were required to sit in a cafeteria with black out curtains drawn so they couldn’t see what was being done. Everything was highly compartmentalized.

George Knapp... because it is the only picture I
had that fit the story.
Or, in other words, there is nothing here to link the base to UFOs. They did mention Bob Lazar and that there was some evidence, thin though it is, to suggest he had worked at the base at some point. George Knapp was interviewed and said that he found the information about Lazar and what he claimed to be plausible.

Those with the program set up three high definition cameras near the perimeter of the base and allowed them to record for 72 hours. In the end, based on what they reported, they managed to photograph a single light. It appeared suddenly, descended rapidly, and then winked out…

In their investigation, they overlaid the flight path of the object on that of the base and the mountains and showed the light vanished before it would have disappeared behind the mountains. They then noted that it seemed to be in the traffic pattern for the base, given the location of runways which would explain the light winking out. The craft had turned so that the light was no longer facing the cameras …

They made some calculations and figured the speed at 4000 miles an hour, faster than anything in the current inventory, except, of course that their calculations might have been in error and that the next generation of military aircraft might well be able to exceed 4000 miles an hour (except in the traffic pattern of an airfield). We don’t know what is being developed today and what those capabilities are.

Anyway, it seems the best they could do was that one picture of that one light that might have been the landing light of an aircraft. And that might have been traveling at a very high speed based on their assumptions.

So, what did they prove? There is secret stuff going on at the base. They are very careful to protect that secrecy. There is an airfield there with hangars on the flight line and other buildings on the base. People are flown in everyday to do their work rather than reside on the base. Other aircraft operate from the airfield. The only evidence of an alien presence or craft they presented are the tales told by Bob Lazar.


Or, in other words, this was an hour of hype that did little to increase our knowledge other than show a camera with a massive telephoto lens and a bunch of people mucking about in the desert. Almost everything about Area 51 is explained by a desire to keep unauthorized people from seeing what they are doing and it doesn’t require the presence of alien creatures to explain the secrecy.

42 comments:

Seal Of Lion said...

It doesn't have anything to do with UFO's but I would love to see the inside of 'Dyson's Dock' at Groom Lake. According to the rumors and tales, its home to old black project aircraft that either haven't been destroyed or declassified yet.

Another rumor is that pieces of the K-129 submarine that the CIA brought up in the 1970's ended up in the classified landfill out there.

cda said...

You wait until Area 52 comes along. The Roswell debris is going to be moved there, so I have been informed by a well-placed source.

Brian Bell said...

Having spoken to at least two people in the TV show business, the majority of network shows are simply now just the mechanism to produce revenue from commercial sales. Content doesn't mean much nor does the entertainment factor.

Shows are produced for short runs to see if themes can produce high viewer numbers....the greater the number of viewers the more advertisers and the more dollars the network can charge.

I believe that's why so many cable network shows have poor content, or purposely produce sensational and unfactual claims to simply draw viewers. 30 min shows are about 18 min of content - the rest commercials. Plus about 5 min of the 18 is repeat content already stated so viewers just tuning in can follow the show.

The UFO series shows have been a failure for the last decade or so in quality content. The only one really getting viewer numbers is "Ancient Aliens" which has so much fictional and distorted content it's fun to watch just to make fun of it.

MUFONs "Hanger One" is also very disappointing even though it got a short second season run. Much of what they say is factually wrong even in good cases that might have had a chance of being real.

Regarding movies....the much hyped "Magic Men" seems to be going no where. It doesn't take 6 years to produce a 120 min Hollywood film. Most of what is shot today for the big screen is about 24 months of production.

Tom said...

H2 is terrible. H1 is even worse. This outfit gave little Giorgio his own series to hunt Bigfoot. Says it all.

Will DeVito said...

Kevin, this blog post really makes me wish you would go deeper into the Area 51 mythos and talk about the 2 main sources we have of information on the base: "Dr" Bob Lazar and "Dr" Dan Burisch. If these two aren't exactly breaking the Stolen Valor act they sure are giving it a shiatsu massage. Closer to my heart as someone who worked very hard to get a biochem degree and become a scientist, they both are clearly lying about their education. Just a thought, I thought if anyone could do a good job in skewering these two it would be you. Keep up the good fight!

Brian Bell said...

The Dan Burisch story is, of course, pure garbage and obviously a gimmick designed at one time to elevate Dan into the limelight for reasons of $$$$. He's a copy cat trying to follow Lazar's story and inserting his own details to make the entire thing sound fantastic.

Burisch has no known sources who can corroborate his massively complex story line.

Lazar is worth a second look as he does have corroborating witnesses to some of the events he relates in his story. I'm not saying everything he is telling is true, but there are odd facts that verify he knew too much to have been making everything up.

I recommend looking at Knapp's 25 year post disclosure interview with Lazar on YouTube and also a Coast to Coast of similar theme. Lazar relates some interesting perspectives decades later that are worth evaluating.

There is a hint on Knapp's part that Lazar has some type of medical condition that affects aspects of memory and recall. If so, elements of his story and the ability to recall certain details is at times difficult for him.

This may be just a convenient way of excusing him from his own story telling errors.

Lazar never knew Burisch nor did he ever report ever seeing "aliens". If he was there, I would suggest he was actually working on our own technogy developed by us, not aliens, and the effort is doubly masked for secrecy by falsely briefing personnel that they are working on "alien tech" so that in the event they come clean to the public it becomes totally unbelievable. There is testimony that the USAF has and does engage in disinformation using the alien explanation.

ufodude2010 said...

@Brian Bell -- Although if I recall correctly, Lazar did mention he looked into the 'sports model' as he called it. I believe he was looking upside down from a hatch on the top and he described the area he was viewing as only being able to fit someone significantly smaller than the average adult. This would imply non-human entities or maybe mini-me. Lol.

Brian Bell said...

@Ufodude2010....Lazar

Yes that's true according to what Lazar claimed. I wonder how much visual distortion one can get while looking inside something relatively small whether upside down or not. The "furniture" as he called it referred to small seats - but he never went further in their description. Were they standard ejection seats? Or just metal boxes on the floor...that he thought were seats? They may also have been about anything else too...equipment brackets or other common components inside an aircraft.

I do recall he said he was confused when he saw on one side of the craft a backwards US flag....said he didn't know what to make of it. Interestingly it's not that weird - many aircraft have the flag backwards on the opposite side so the stars are always facing forward. Regulation.

That comment actually makes it a tiny bit more believable that he saw something he couldn't describe well.

albert said...

@Brian,
"...Lazar has some type of medical condition...".
Yeah, it's called: "making up fantastic stories". I want to believe, but not enough to strain my credulity to the breaking point:)
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"... and the effort is doubly masked for secrecy by falsely briefing personnel that they are working on "alien tech" so that in the event they come clean to the public it becomes totally unbelievable..."
Seems like a good idea, but your 'subjects' would need to be awfully naive and non-technical.
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Kevin mentioned "...a camera with a massive telephoto lens...". This would be essential for viewing from Tikaboo Peak (26 miles away). I was one of the last to stand on Freedom Ridge on a below-freezing night, January, 1995, before the final land grab. Glen Campbell was our 'guide'. We were watched, but not approached by the cammo dudes. A massive telephoto lens probably would have brought them over (photography is strictly forbidden, even from off-site). The hangar lights and runway lights were on, and the view was spectacular. It almost fills your field of vision, from left to right. TP is 'only' 10 miles from the base but if you drive anywhere around there, you are watched. As far as UFO sightings, I've read only a few accounts by somewhat untrustworthy individuals. Even Sean David Morton gave up on his Area 51 UFO (i.e., Janet flights:) tours, and has moved on to other paranormal things.
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Area 51 is still there. It's still a good place to test advanced aircraft.
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It was fun while it lasted.
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albert said...

@Brian,

Re: Lazar:

Element 115? Synthesized again in 2013, it's official, and it decays quickly (it's unstable).
Will IUPAC name it Lazarium?

The words 'snowball' and 'Hell' come to mind.
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Brian Bell said...

@ Albert -

I don't disagree - just sharing thoughts. Unless the government was working on 115 before the civilian world, how would the guy be able to even come up with it decades before it was "discovered"? That's odd.

He was able to take witnesses out to scheduled test flights at night - so if they weren't "ufos" he still knew something about test schedules that no one else apparently had access to. That's odd too.

As far as false briefings to technical personnel - recall it was the background on how they got the tech that could have been false - not the tech itself. This would not be the first time smart people were duped by their own kind or their employers. Happens all the time. I can see intelligence personnel conjuring a plan to make the back story so unbelievable just to keep the truth hidden. Richard Doty even confessed he did the same as did other USAF intelligence officers.

purrlgurrl said...

Like Roswell, Area 51 is another dead horse that continues to be beaten into the dirt by a cadre of people who just can't seem to square up reality with the fantasy in their heads.

Area 51. Zzzzzzzzzz.
Roswell. Zzzzzzzzzz.
Rendlesham. Zzzzzzzzz.

There are other, more intriguing cases. But I don't think most are interested in them and would much rather argue over these three non-starters until their last breaths are gasped out.

I suspect the military component makes many think these must be credible. Instead, the military component makes them just that much more likely to have been classified security operations.

But cold, hard logic has nothing to do with these debates, and they remain in the touchy feely realm (I want to believe . . . ).

KRandle said...

purrlgurrl -

The topic of the post was actually the poor quality of H2's documentary and that they provided nothing other than it was an air base with runways and hangars, there were buildings being built, and sometimes classified experiments took place. Nothing to connect any of it to aliens other than Bob Lazar who sort of flashed by.

It is clear to me that Area 51 is where the next generation of military aircraft are tested and has nothing to do with reverse engineering alien technology.

cda said...

I did not see this 'documentary', but presumably it is aimed at the younger, fresher and more impressionable, viewers. It was not aimed at the oldies like most of us are, and who know better than to fall for it.

Lazarium? This is indeed a good name. Who thought of that?

albert said...

@Brian,
Theoretical physicists have been predicting the possibilities of the higher elements for years before Lazar came along. All are radioactive, are 'created' in the laboratory, and have very short lifetimes. Lazar said it was stable. That was a guess, and turned out to be false. He was right about one thing; the fuss would have been over long before its official discovery. I would have chosen Element 136, so I'd be dead before its discovery. Wouldn't it be funny if there _is_ a stable transuranic element with anti-gravity properties?
I don't recall the details of the 'test flights', but if you're testing, say, particle beam weapons that create visible light blobs, UFOs would be a great 'cover story' for the 'not cleared' folks...
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@cda,
I was joking ('new' elements are often named after people), but someone beat me to it:
https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_55&products_id=1071
Can you guess who?
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It'd be interesting to see the actual demographics for these shows. The UFO mythos is firmly embedded in the younger folks worldview (along with a lot of other 'paranormal' stuff). Even old fogies like me can't help being being bombarded by it.
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@Kevin,
It seems like there is an endless supply of these shows, which I would classify as 'infotainment'. Like the 'paranormal', there is obviously a demand for 'em, 'cause it's all about the money.
I watch them too. Usually alone, since no likes to hear my constant criticism. Pointing out the lies, errors, and discrepancies can be bit tiresome, I suppose.
"You don't believe anything, do you?", "I'm not going to let you analyze my orb photos.", "You're too critical!", and my favorite: "Stop being so negative!" :)

Sometimes, ya gotta have a sense of humor.
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Brian Bell said...

Funny....I caught an episode of Hanger One entitled "Bases On The Moon". Old story to anyone who follows UFOs. But new to those watching H2.

Naturally, MUFON is convinced the bases are real. Interesting they also stated without a question or doubt that the lost two minutes of NASAs Apollo 11 broadcast conveyed that Armstrong and Aldrin saw massive alien ships and were scared.

Again, heard that long ago but here they state it as "absolute fact" to a gullible viewing audience.

Another case of "bad ufos"....in my opinion.

albert said...

@Brian,
Do you think the MUFON folks really believe this, or they are playing to the 'base', like politicians do? They concentrate on subjects that 'have traction' with more viewers. Alien Moonbases are way sexy compared to, say, radar data.
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Brian Bell said...

@ Albert

Playing to the base....but then it makes me question anything Mufon has to say. Was a Mufon member once, but never went back. Most group meetings were dominated by "Contactees" telling their stories about what our alien friends were here to do, and tales of out of body experiences floating around the cosmos. Nutty.

On Area 51 - I would not be surprised if Lazar was actually working on plasma weapons or some other device. Given his story that he was caught by the CAMO dudes with friends, then spirited away for a private debrief makes sense if he was actually employed there. It was after that when he supposedly "ran away" and spilled the beans.

My thoughts are that he may have simply been a typical employee performance problem...non-productive...and rather than getting fired he simply ran away and made up a story that was sensational in order to hide his on the job incompetence.

He does say he can't always remember what he did there, and maybe he just didn't do anything he was supposed to do. A problem employee....

purrlgurrl said...

The only reason Area 51 holds any interest beyond its immediate perimeter is because of Lazar and his claims. Otherwise, it would just be another military base and nobody would care about it outside the state and county where it's located.

Area 51 still falls into that sorry trio of "done to death" cases that true believers just can't let go of. So we continue to get History, TLC, Discover, etc. schlockumentaries about it.

albert said...

@Brian,
The contactee/abduction thing is of no interest to me, either. Something is going on there, but that field of study is qualitative, i.e. social 'science'. 'Chock full of nuts' on both sides.
You know I'm the first one to point out probabilities, however small. The probability of Lazars story being true, in whole or in part, is quite a bit less than the Cubs sweeping next years World Series. The whole Element 115 bit was waaaay overdone. There's no baby in the bathwater, so let's throw it out, shall we? If someone can produce a Lazar timeline, I'll be glad to rewrite it to show folks how a real pro would do a hoax.
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@purrlgurrl,
A51 was, and will always be, of interest to aviation technology buffs. That's how I got into this whole, crazy UFO thing. Let's add cattle mutes to the 'dead horse' category.
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cda said...

I remember a fact discovered by Stan Friedman concerning Lazar. Apparently Lazar was not listed in the Area 51 employee phone directory, thus suggesting he was on some special highly classified 'black' project. Not so, according to what Stan discovered. Lazar was actually employed by a contract company, and was leased to Area 51 on a temporary basis. Therefore he was not a real employee at all. What his field of expertise was I don't recall. Then his name popped up in connection with the hiring of call girls (in Las Vegas?), he disappeared rather abruptly and nothing more was heard of him.

Don Maor said...

Brian said:
, , "Actually drag avoidance is the cited reason why birds fly in ordered formation (like a V). Look it up." .

All right. I guess you already know that birds are not humans. Your point was that only humans fly in formation. Wrong. Not just humans.

I also note that a typical disc shape, in the "convex lens" shape, indeed has good aerodynamic properties regarding drag minimization. So if you want to play the "alien tech" versus "human tech" game here, I would say that aliens also might be worried about minimizing air-drag. In space they don't need to worry about air drag, but in an atmosphere they may care.

.
I don't recall seeing fish form a V or echelon formation. Swimming in a cluster is not an ordered formation
.

I don't recall Arnold speaking about echelon formation, neither. Even if he did mention it, and you still want to play the "alien tech versus human tech" game here, it does not matter; aliens might fly in the way they want. It may be just safer to fly that way, and they might have the ancient custom to fly that way sometimes. Period.

Maybe Arnold did use some of those words .

Not maybe, He INDEED used words "saucer" and "disk".

he changed his words often - but he drew something different and later added something he never stated in his original report - a wing shaped object Don...you've seen the drawings he made. That's not a saucer by common definition.


Oh, Oh, if he changed words, probably also changed shapes, so it is also posible that he indeed first saw a perfectly 100% circular - DVD disc object, but his mind later modified it put a timid triangle on the tail side.

I told Lance to do this exercise. "Try to inscribe or circumbscribe a perfect circle over the Arnold's original drawing and it will still be a fairly good fit". Of course Lance refused to do the exercise.

My point is that if you ask me to describe the object on Arnold's original drawing with just one world, I will probably be forced to use the word "disc". It is the simplest way to describe it.

I also don't recall animals flying at speeds around 1,400 MPH either. But I do know terrestrial military aircraft do or can..

Maybe Brian, probably not in 1947, but maybe. Just don't forget Arnold wrote that there were no smoke trails. So 1400 MPH planes with no smoke trails in 1947? Hard to believe, but maybe.


No you didn't say Arnold's sighting was alien....but you refute and scoff at any other hypothesis widdling it down to "ET". You are also an ET proponent via your posts. You don't need to say it Don...it's obvious..


I scoff at the idea that Arnold did not use the word disc or saucer. I scoff at the idea that the drawing made by Arnold in 1947 does not resemble a disc. It clearly resembles. I scoff at the absurd idea of some debunkers that the Arnold sighting represents some kind of original sin of the saucer shape. Bull.

The argument that Arnold's sighting was a terrestrial formation of military aircraft is not a bizzare hypothesis.....chucking all other considerations assuming the ET hypothesis. Is the only answer .

Yes it is bizarre. Those suposedly human made disc shaped object are still clasified or what? 67 years later? Russians or someones outside the states have not been able to down not even one of those human made discs? Hard to believe.


So what was it Don? What did he see in your opinion?


Disc-like objects Brian, disc-like objects.

cda said...

Don:

Your comments, and notes about Brian's comments, belong in the topic two generations before this one.

But don't worry too much: I made the same mistake myself once.

cda said...

Add-on to my own last comment: what did happen to our friend Mr Lazar after he 'disappeared'? Is he listed in a 'Hall of Fame' anywhere, for his contribution to science or astronautics?

Brian Bell said...

@ CDA - Lazar's record

Well...he lives in Las Vegas. He runs his own company. And he claims, in reflection, that he would never have gone public if he knew the outcome it has had today....mainly on his reputation or so he states.

The only thing I think he ever invented, or was known for inventing, was a rocket propelled bicycle go cart contraption. But that was while he was at Los Alamos Lab and when he got connected to Teller.

So I guess...nothing.

Brian Bell said...

@ Don – an issue of semantics…

Since you posted your comment in the wrong place, I will just leave my last thoughts on your last comments here. Not worth further discussion as the classic polarized opinion is getting in the way.

You said:

"I don't recall Arnold speaking about echelon formation, neither. Even if he did mention it, and you still want to play the "alien tech versus human tech" game here, it does not matter; aliens might fly in the way they want. It may be just safer to fly that way, and they might have the ancient custom to fly that way sometimes. Period."

Look deeper Don…the same sources you were referencing quote him as saying; “The objects were grouped together, in a diagonally stepped-down, echelon formation, stretched out over a distance that he later calculated to be five miles". He later claimed it was a “reverse echelon formation” which is nothing more than the same thing, basically either side of a classic “V” formation.

Simple 2+2 deductions and logic go like this:

1) Humans fly in formation – purposely – and for a reason
2) Humans have been flying in formation since WWI – about 1914
3) Human military aircraft also fly in formation
4) There are many pilots, military or civilian that know how to fly in formation
5) The sightings happened on earth by a pilot who knew what formation flying was
6) The observer saw a formation and initially thought they were jet aircraft

So if all of these things are true why conclude (definitively) what was seen is explained by “aliens from outer space”? If it walks like a duck, behaves like a duck, and sounds like a duck, is it a duck? No – apparently to some it’s an “alien”. With that logic you could just as easily conclude the "discs" were flying fish, flying elephants, or even super intelligent dolphins with advanced technology.

You said:

"Maybe Brian, probably not in 1947, but maybe. Just don't forget Arnold wrote that there were no smoke trails. So 1400 MPH planes with no smoke trails in 1947? Hard to believe, but maybe."

Considering that the AVRO Project Y was supposed to use a Radial Flow Gas Turbine engine it wouldn’t have left a “smoke trail”. By that I think you mean “exhaust trail" because if you mean “contrail” that is something completely different. Besides, the fuel source is also a major factor in exhaust trails. You might also want to do a little homework on something called the “ramjet”. They were conceptualized as early as 1913. German scientists experimented with their designs beginning in 1941 – and some when to work for the US and Canada in 1945-47.

You said:

"Yes it is bizarre. Those suposedly human made disc shaped object are still clasified or what? 67 years later? Russians or someones outside the states have not been able to down not even one of those human made discs? Hard to believe."

Yes Don still classified. Hard to believe the very same people saying that the world’s governments and the military have been “hiding” the truth about aliens from the public for 67 years….but in the same breath those people claim governments and the military couldn’t hide their advanced weapons technology for the same 67 years. I guess it’s just easier for them to hide aliens than their own machinery.

Tom said...

Brian,

Lazar has been living in East Lansing, Michigan for years. Here's his company's site -

https://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=25&zenid=240f94bdfac2d59670248da1f76d4e20

Here is a Detroit Free Press article about his company in East Lansing.

http://archive.freep.com/article/20130803/COL46/308030016/United-Nuclear-Scientific-Equipment-Supplies-Bob-Lazar-east-lansing

Stephen Jackson said...

Cda-

Lazar has just recently done a sit down at a ufo conference with the journalist who introduced us to him.

Someone has also just come forward confirming they worked with with lazar at Los alamos.

Brian Bell said...

I wouldn't dispute the Los Alamos job...that one seems legitimate backed with phone book evidence. 51? Still questionable.

Stephen Jackson said...

Brain -

I can't imagine it being easy to find evidence he worked at Area 51. In my job audit trails are key yet it doesn't take any effort to break that trail if something was to be hidden for any reason. I would expect if someone was brought in to Area 51 to work on something like lazar claims, they aren't exactly going to keep documentation, at least the obtainable kind.

That's not me saying I believe everything lazar has said but I do find him convincing/genuine.

albert said...

Re: Lazar,

I guess I should have pointed out that the link I posted for the Lazarium T-shirt was on his companys website.
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Certainly, Lazar could have worked as a contractor in Los Alamos, perhaps as a technician of some kind. Maybe he even worked at A51 at some point. Lots of civies did. He didn't report just seeing UFOs; he explained their workings in great detail. The only way he could have got that kind of access, would have to have been through Teller. The man was a powerful force. If he said 'give this kid a job; he's smart', it could have happened (subject to the required background checks, of course). I don't think Lazar was stupid enough to fall for any disinformation campaign, either. Neither do I like the idea of Lazar being a govt disinformation agent, unless the scam was scripted by Donald Duck, instead of a real scientist. Then again, the AF has a poor track record for reasonable explanations of UFO phenomena.
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Well, I guess East Lansing is a nice place to live (it's the home of MSU), but I think Lazar belongs in Hollywood (Silicone Valley :)
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Brian Bell said...

@ Stephen and Albert

Yes Lazar is one more inigma in the UFO story. His initial interview - the first one - does seem to convey a genuine tone. His current post disclosure revisited ones do too.

Perhaps he is a really, really good amateur actor - but he doesn't seem to like his subject or script really - avoids it mostly saying it has caused him great problems.

Saw Teller asked directly on camera if he knew Lazar - Teller pushed the camera man out the door. Interesting....

albert said...

@Brian,
Sounds like Teller wanted to distance himself from Lazar. Can't blame him. Whether Lazar was totally on the level or not, Teller had no choice.....
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Brian Bell said...

@ albert

Agreed. Vid indicated, to me, that Teller knew him. Body language and facial expressions gave it away - no need for words. But I agree, if the guy was involved in any kind of classified work - even mundane stuff - Teller would steer clear after the disclosure and after having sponsored him. We would too.

As it is, seems Teller was pretty gruff, to the point, and highly competitive. Tough guy. I think Teller was an expert at keeping secrets.

Larry Holcombe said...

Don't know how Lazar has taken over this thread but a quick comment to Christopher:

Stan Friedman found Lazar's name not in an area 51 directory but in a Los Alamos directory under a subcontractor, Kirk/Meyer. In short he worked for a subcontractor at Los Alamos and was not employed by Los Alamos. To my knowledge there is no proof that he ever worked at Groom Lake, but of course I certainly could be wrong.

The bottom line, I continue to believe Roswell was an extraterrestrial event, but also as a skeptic I believe Area 51 or S4 is a diversion or cover-up for tests of highly classified ariel platforms. As far as Lazar, if you lie about your academic credentials, in my mind you lose all credibility. It's just that simple.

Stefan Fasan said...

I can't believe anybody is still buying that Area 51 thing.

Lazar --> not credible, no matter what.

There's no evidence at all that area51 contains anything else than classified USAF experimental aircraft. Sorry to say that but it's just a bunch of stories from questionable sources.

The "scientific" descriptions of Lazar absolutely ludicrous.

this whole farce is really appalling.

Paul Young said...

Larry Holcomb....
"As far as Lazar, if you lie about your academic credentials, in my mind you lose all credibility. It's just that simple."

Agreed...And, of course, that is the major kicker against Lazar.


Mind you,just to speculate... if I were someone in charge of a project to reverse engineer an ET flying saucer, and after years of trying to figure the thing out...with my team of men stacked full of physics degrees from highly rated universities...but coming to a bit of a brick wall, then maybe I might turn to a maverick engineer like Lazar.

I expect some of these physics geniuses at S4 could work out the square root of a box of matches, but not be able to open it.
Whereas someone like Lazar, who along with at least a basic knowledge of physics...can, with his own hands, build a hydrogen powered Corvette and build a particle accelerator...all from his back yard!!!!

That kind of engineering skill impresses me, physics degree or no physics degree,and maybe that "know how" came to the attention of someone looking for just that kind of bloke.

As usual, pure speculation from me...but I expect someone like Bob Lazar would be ideal if you needed another, more eccentric brain with good practical skills to bounce ideas off.

No getting around him fibbing about where he got his degrees though. I find it odd that he would lie about something that HE MUST HAVE KNOWN would be fairly easy to check up on.

Stefan Fasan said...

I absolutely embrace the idea that Lazar has been meddled with. compare that with the absurdity and inconsistency of Penniston's / Burroughs' / Wallace's accounts of the RFI; same MO. As for his physics knowledge, how could he state that the strong nuclear force is gravity?

BTW that "particle accelerator in his backyard" thing, has it been established that this thing actually works?

I' take a step forward and claim that there is no evidence whatsoever that the UFO phenomenon is extraterrestrial in origin, apart from what the "ufo occupants" themselves keep telling people. For me, Area51 is one of those disinfo anomalies.

cda said...

You realise that if Lazar really had managed to help reverse-engineer a captured UFO (from Roswell or anywhere else) he would have had to take second place in the Hall of Fame. This is because the feat had already been accomplished by the research team at the Battelle Institute in the late 1940s, as related by Tony Bragalia whilst he was researching the origins of nitinol a few years ago. Lazar was not quite the 'star' he thought he was.

Brian Bell said...

I believe Lazar, as Paul stated, is an odd sort of "genius" but awkward inventor. That doesn't mean what he has claimed is truthful as demonstrated by false information. He's one of those self-made intellectuals who never got the degrees, so lied about them to get some credibility. Very smart, but also missing some common sense on lower stuff, behavior, etc. Head in the clouds type.

Important to know that Lazar himself claimed that his contractor, or the government, purposely hired quirky non-mainstream maverick intellectuals because it was easier to discredit them if the leaked.

Brian Bell said...

@ CDA

Nitinol - if you want to have a good laugh watch the current vids of Schmitt pronouncing this at multiple conventions during his speeches. Phonetically the word is "nigh-tin-all".....he says "knit-ten-all". So if you want to use Nitinol as the magic liquid flowing memory metal (which it's not) found at Roswell, then at least pronounce the word correctly.

albert said...

@Brian, @Paul,

Teller was born in Hungary, very controversial, and quite a maverick himself. If he saw another maverick Hungarian ('Lazar' can be a Hungarian name, but I don't know Lazars family background), he might have helped him get a job in Los Alamos.
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