Wednesday, May 02, 2018

John Greenewald's Take on AATIP - Updated

(Blogger’s note: My pal, John Greenewald, had attempted to post this to the comment section of the last column, but it is too long to be accepted there. Rather than breaking it into several pieces, I decided to just add it as a new post. It clarifies some of the issues that have been raised about the AATIP and the like. You can find additional information about a wide variety of topics at

John Greenewald - Photo copyright by
Kevin Randle

It references some stuff "above" etc., because this is only a portion of the article. I pasted it here though in hopes it addressed my thoughts on this very topic...
There is a lot wrong with this statement, and although it could be partially true, nothing is "official" yet -- and at the root -- only muddies the water, it does not help to clean it up.
Here is why: First and foremost, many are talking about how this is a "new" revelation discovered by Mr. Paul Dean from Australia. He writes (in part):

In March, 2018, I was contacted by someone who claimed to be in a senior defence program leadership role. He stated that the UFO program on everyone’s lips was not officially called the “Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program” (AATIP). This was, apparently, a loose, almost ad hoc term for one part of a somewhat larger defence program. The true name of the overall program, or at least the official starting title, was the “Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program” (AAWSAP), or something extremely similar.

Of course, all this is based on what a DoD contact told me. The term “Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program”, or its “AAWSAP” abbreviation, hasn’t been mentioned by anyone else. Not the New York Times, not Luis Elizondo, and not even the DIA’s public relations staffers who must, by now, have been flooded with enquiries. 

As I eluded, Glassel has found two examples of the AAWSAP project title. This had been shared privately with me, by two people, and I thought that there was simply no references available to absolutely confirm them for sure. I searched, but with no luck. Well, the “Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program” indeed did, or does, exist. Glassel, on a hunch, with keen-eyed Curt Collins in tow, discovered that Dr. Eric Davis, who has been closely associated with the AATIP and TTSA story, had published a number of scientific papers for the DIA, and two of those publications were already released and available online. The titles are, “Traversable Wormholes, Stargates and Negative Energy” and “Warp Drive, Dark Energy and the Manipulation of Extra Dimensions”. Both are listed as “Defence Intelligence Reference Documents” and both were published in late 2009.

What I gather is that the AATIP desk was a major part of the overall AAWSAP effort. Also, the term AATIP was developed over time, and may have been tacked on to, or into, AAWSAP. AATIP was a looser title for internal usage, and it continued in other channels while the overall AAWSAP appears to have ended. 

It should first be pointed out that all this was given to Mr. Dean by an "anonymous" source, at least "anonymous" to the public.  Anonymous sources may not be a bad thing, but they don't help, especially with this topic. Mr. Dean claims that whoever the source is, they have a clean security record. That could very well be true, but as indicated in Mr. Dean's article, when read in full, he said this contact even got the name wrong wherein words were traversed and/or changed based on multiple documents that surfaced "confirming" this new name. Why would he get them wrong if he was a clean "source"? 

That leads me to my second problem with this new story. The documents referenced above, used to "confirm" this new program, have been available online since at least December 18, 2017. There is nothing "new" about them: 

Source 2  

I saw these documents back in late December and early January, but dismissed them as they are largely sourced/credited to Corey Goode, a very controversial figure to begin with. If they are genuine (and they may be) these documents do not appear that they were released under any official channels.  They may be real, I am not saying they are fake, but until they are officially released under FOIA, or acknowledged as genuine by a figure in the government, they should not be considered gospel, especially considering the source. According to another blog, it is said that Dr. Eric Davis confirmed these documents were real -- but this (at the point of writing this) is third hand information.  

It also should be noted, as I wrote the answer to the question above this one which has been on The Black Vault now for months, records like this are already publicly available which were written by Dr. Eric Davis. It would not surprise me if these documents are, in fact, genuine, but even if they are, they don't teach us anything new. We already could deduce the Defense Intelligence Research Documents (DIRDs) as referenced by Dr. Davis on Coast to Coast AM, were probably going to be along the same lines as what I found while answering the question above and those documents ARE IRREFUTABLY genuine.  In the end, just because a document is written about Warp Drives and advanced propulsion, doesn't mean the government took it seriously, built the devices or continued the research within the walls of the black budget intelligence community. 

So, I go back to my point that this is only muddying the waters.  Because as of April 30, 2018, this new material is summarized like this:  We have a name that came from an anonymous source, that coincided with a name on a "leaked" document three months prior, but is being reported in the last days of April 2018 as a "new" discovery and it has long been kept in "secret" by Mr. Dean but is now released to the public as to it being some big reveal.  We can prove this is all not true with the source links above, and the name (whether it is, or is not a genuine program name) was available on the internet for months prior to even when the "anonymous source" came forward.

Lastly, this "new name" is confirmed by these "leaked" documents, as sourced to Corey Goode. He is a highly controversial (and largely dismissed by many) figure alleging a connection between himself and a "Secret Space Program".  We can now comfortably QUESTION these documents based on these facts, not write about them as the nail in the coffin proof as some are stating in their blogs.  

This deserves repeating: this is only muddying the waters of an already muddied ocean.  When we have real documents (not leaked) that prove it, we should publish them.  Until that time, articles/allegations/claims etc. like this have not progressed this story one bit.  


Roger Glassel said...

I will not accept that the videos were released by the DOD until I see some solid release documents from the review office (DOPSR review process) or an official release authority (release process). A new source - from Paul Dean - just saying so is not good enough for me. I have told this to Paul. I will pursue my work as stated in my article.

I am not seeking information produced by AATIP/AAWSA. I am seeking information if the targeting pod videos - as stated by Mr. Elizondo - went through the DOPSR review process before it went through the release process.

It was important for me to have the AAWSA search phrase added to my request - as the Davis' reports were done under the AAWSA program, and a LinkedIn profile I found connected AAWSA to Bigelow. If I was wrong, it would just have been redundant information to my FOIA request, as it already contained other information on which videos I was referring to. I have learned that Isaac Koi has sent these two AAWSA reports to Dr. Davis and got confirmation that it is his reports. So I am glad that I added it to my FOIA request.

I should also add that none of the research I have done so far would have been necessary if both TTSA and NYT would share the release documents they say they have.

Roger Glassel

El Sopa Cartoons said...

Kevin, what do think about the Elroy Center story?
I was reading about the Battelle topic and found it interesting, there's no mention of it on you last Roswell book.

Curt Collins said...

This may help with those muddy waters:

Up until now, the Pentagon has not confirmed the AATIP as anything but an aircraft defense program. Roger Glassel received Pentagon confirmation regarding the AATIP and AAWSA name - and its status as a UFO study.

FAdamsXII said...

Anyone involved in all this should really start submitting FOIAs to the AFRL's Space Vehicles and Directed Energy Weapons directorates using the recently revealed names and I'd suggest also referencing the Phillips Lab, which was those directorates previous names, if/when you do.

I bet you'll likely get something. It may not be a huge revelation or a smoking gun but something's likely out there that went on at Kirtland recently.

Adam S. said...

But, how much of it was really focused as an UFO study per say? Perhaps that aspect is really just part of the cover for directed energy weapons research/testing? Lenticular drones with attached energy weapons...