As
usual, when I get together with Don Schmitt, we have a wide-ranging
conversation about many aspects of UFOs. I began the program complaining about
the latest outrage in the magazine world when they write about UFOs. A long
comment on that follows this posting on this blog.
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| Don Schmitt. Photo copyright by Kevin Randle |
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/44778844
Although
no researcher ever had the opportunity to interview Barnett, who was the source
for the Plains UFO crash, we both had the chance to speak with Barnett’s boss,
Fleck Danley. Don said that Danley, when asked for a date of the conversation
about the UFO crash with Barnett, thought that Barnett had said something about
1950. When I spoke with Danley, he seemed to indicate that it was 1947, but
then, in the course of the conversation, I realized that I could get Danley to
say whatever I wanted. He didn’t have a firm grasp on the situation and I spoke
to Danley before interviewed him.
We
did speak about the late Len Stringfield, crediting him with putting
discussions of UFO crashes back on the table. Prior to that, the subject was
nearly taboo in the UFO community. The blame for that was Frank Scully’s Behind
the Flying Saucers, which mentioned three UFO crashes including the one
near Aztec, New Mexico. That report was discredited by J. P. Cahn, and with
that came the collapse of any discussions about crashes… until Len revitalized
the topic with his research. Len is the one who came up with the term,
“crash/retrieval.”
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| Len Stringfield. |
He
did surprise me by saying that the Kecksburg crash might have been a bolide or
the return of terrestrial manufactured craft. The evidence does seem to lead in
that direction, given what we know today.
We
did end up talking about Shag Harbour, which I think of as more of an emergency
landing rather than a crash. We both thought the documentation and the work of
Chris Styles and Don Ledger are important in understanding the Shag Harbour
event.
Next up is Rob Brun Del Re, author of UFOs: Proof Positive. We’ll be looking at the proof and discussing several aspects of the UFO field.
8 comments:
Re: Las Vegas (April 1962) –
First:
“Something extremely extraordinary happened on the night of April 18, 1962. The air force offered a series of explanations ignoring the facts. But the witnesses who were there know the truth. They saw something from outer space and it was not a meteor. It was a craft from another world.” Kevin D. Randle, A History of UFO Crashes (1995), p. 94.
Next:
“Something extraordinary happened on the night of April 18, 1962. The Air Force offered, as it so often did, a series of explanations, and ignored those facts that didn’t fit with their explanation. But the witnesses who were there know the truth. They saw something from outer space and it was not a meteor. It was a craft from another world. There is no doubt about it.” Kevin D. Randle, CRASH: When UFOs Fall From the Sky (2010), p. 204.
Now:
“Don thought the 1962 crash near Las Vegas was interesting. I said that the Air Force had been right in breaking the case into two parts, with some of this in Utah, and then the explosion seen over Las Vegas. I just am not sure that it still qualifies as a UFO crash.” Kevin D. Randle, X-Zone Broadcast Network – Don Schmitt and a Variety of UFO Topics (2021).
Amazing how the “facts” of a UFO crash can change so drastically over time ... no doubt about it.
Re: Kecksburg, PA (December 1965) –
If Kecksburg was merely a meteor, why did the military – who were present from out of town – confiscate John Murphy’s film from his camera and the tape of his notes from his recorder resulting from his visit to the impact site?
P.S. Kecksburg really requires its own book-length write-up for all the many angles to be considered. If Stan Gordon won’t do it (and I’ve asked him to more than once), I truly wish you would consider it.
John -
It comes from reassessing the information and reviewing the witness statements. The Utah sightings are interesting because of the EM aspect to them. I spoke to many of the witnesses about the case and I know the flaws in the Air Force evaluation of it. I also know, that contrary to what the Air Force claimed in 1962, meteors can be spotted by radar, though it is more likely the ionized trail rather than the object itself. Anyway, the point here is that it seems likely there are two separate events... which doesn't eliminate the alien aspect of the Utah sightings, given what I was told by the many witnesses but it does make the Las Vegas aspect somewhat problematic. If we are going to be true to the investigation, then we must be prepared to evaluate the case (or cases) as new insights are developed.
For Kecksburg, the answer is that in the beginning, they didn't know exactly what they had... and was it the military or the State Police... and what about the astronomical information that suggests a bolide with the pieces found in Canada. I've always worried about this case and was surprised by Don's answer, not that it wasn't something that I hadn't considered, only that he said this out loud. I have great respond for Stan Gordon, which is why I have been reluctant to say much publicly.
If Las Vegas has been reassessed to this degree, then I respectfully request you write the book on this event. FYI, another source from the UFO community had indicated to me that Scott Holloway -- who has written at least one shorter and insightful article on Las Vegas -- was to publish a book on the crash in 2019. To my knowledge, this did not happen nor I have seen any further indication of such book forthcoming from Mr. Holloway anytime soon.
Re: Kecksburg -- I and others are not denying that a bolide appeared at or near the same time, but we dispute that that is what was found in the woods near Kecksburg in December 1965.
P.S. I do agree with your statement: "If we are going to be true to the investigation, then we must be prepared to evaluate the case (or cases) as new insights are developed."
Thank you.
John -
Can you name a single witness to the crash or the debris in the Las Vegas end of this tale? We have witnesses to the flash in the sky, and we have Walter Butt who lead the sheriff's rescue team but they didn't find anyone. We have to look at this dispassionately. There are no named witnesses who saw anything on the ground.
Kevin -- In regard to Las Vegas, I have read the write-ups in your two superb books on UFO crashes: A History of UFO Crashes and CRASH: When UFOs Fall From the Sky, plus Scott Holloway's article The Nevada Fireball.
As my UFO-time is presently consumed by my Art Bell project, I have not had the chance to determine whether or not any witnesses who saw anything on the ground are referenced by these three (3) sources. So at this time I cannot name any such witness per your question.
But John, that was my point. There are many witnesses to the Utah end of this and I talked to many of them myself. We had a wide array of experiences from EM Effects, to landings, to pilots in the air. With Las Vegas, there were those who saw something in the air but no one who saw anything on the ground.
With Roswell we have people who handled the debris, people who cleaned the crash site, people who flew it out of Roswell. There are civilians and military and newspaper articles and even the FBI document. With Las Vegas we just don't have all those sources and we have no one who we can identify as having seen anything on the ground. That's the key here. We have no names of anyone who saw anything on the ground.
Kevin -- I agree with you. My point was that you have changed your position re: Las Vegas and Utah (both April 1962) from your past book-published writings wherein you combined them AND were so definitive about them ... at least that's how I interpreted your wonderfully informative write-ups. Frankly, I was surprised by these new changes of yours, BUT I ACCEPT THEM NONETHELESS (!)
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