Thursday, June 25, 2015

New Defector from the Roswell Slides

Mesa Verde
Once again I’m dragged back into the nonsense that is the Roswell Slides. It should be clear to everyone who is able to think at all that the slides show the image of an unfortunate child who died hundreds of years ago. No one has ever offered an explanation of how we got from the image of what is clearly a mummy to the idea that it was the body of an alien creature. How did they make that first incredibly dumb leap of logic?

This is the latest development, and by latest I mean one that first appeared on Curt Collins blog last week though Jaime Maussan has now produced another document about why the body in the slide is different from the one the rest of us believe to be the same. With Maussan’s latest, Curt’s posting becomes even more important. The post can be found here:


One of the experts who was defending the idea that the slides showed an alien creature was Dr. Richard O’Connor, who, as you’ll see at Curt’s site, wrote to Linda Moulton Howe that he had been able to confirm the deblurring of the placard to his satisfaction but that the statement on the placard “cannot be correct.”

O’Connor joined the alien body team after the great May 5th fiasco. Jaime Maussan interviewed O’Connor via Skype because he had solid medical credentials and he spoke English. It was used as part of an article that claimed, “Doctors Agree: Roswell Slides Show a Nonhuman Body.”

This interview that was posted to YouTube would be of some value in supporting that idea of “two bodies” as Maussan claims, but all that has changed. O’Connor, having seen the FOIA material recovered by Shepherd Johnson, said, “Yeah, I’ve just, over the past 48 hours more or less, been looking at that, and it seems to me like it's drawing us toward the conclusion that in fact is this photograph probably does represent a native American child. There were some, a couple of photographs in the last pages of that set of documents, one of them in particular on page 176, and in my opinion it really does show a different photograph of what is very likely the same child.”

So, one of those who had once suggested the body was alien, though based solely on an examination of the slide, had now reversed himself. After seeing the available documentation, he changed his mind.

Curt, in fact, sent an email to O’Connor and was surprised to get a response and an invitation to give him a telephone call. According to Curt, at his Blue Blurry Lines website:

He told me that looking at a photograph is fraught with pitfalls, and mentioned the fact that the quality of the Slides photograph was not very good, the details were not clear due to the blurry photograph, which was taken at an angle from the body (and possibly distorted by the glass in the case).

There were some characteristics that he still didn't quite understand, like the condition of the chest cavity, but it occurred to him that the terraced cliffs of Montezuma Castle must have caused the deaths of a number of children from falling off the ledges. He wondered if that could have accounted for the injuries to the child's body, particularly the damage to the head and the fractured femur. I pointed out the shallow grave may have accounted for some of this, particularly the loss of the lower leg. (I [Curt Collins] thought later that the excavation by amateur archeologists could also be a factor.) 


Interestingly, Tom Carey was interviewed on June 2 on a KGRA show about all of this. According to what Curt reported, “Of the placard being read he says, ‘a day or two later, this bombshell hits about it being a mummified two-year-old boy. Well, talk about a right cross, or a left hook. He also seems to feel betrayed by two of the people who he’d asked to help with the placard have since ‘joined our critics.’ Of the critics, he said he’d have worked with them, ‘had they been civil.’ [Though I have to wonder about some of the less civil things that Tom had said in his comments about the placard and how quickly it was read… the data had been there, if the proper investigation had taken place] In the opening, he mentioned having plenty to keep him busy, a new book coming out with Don Schmitt, and another one planned beyond that, but first up is their appearance at the annual Roswell Festival.”

Here’s the thing. Someone in on the beginning of the investigation had to know the truth. The slide placard was deblurred so quickly that any alibi about the failure to do so prior to May 5th falls onto those making the investigation. They should have been able to do that three years ago rather than get caught up in this sideshow. Basic research and a demand to see the original slides probably would have ended this long before we get to Mexico City. A simple question about the sequence of the slides, such as “Where is number ten?” might have done it. (I note here that according to some, the slides shown were number 9 and number 11, which left the question of “Where is number 10?)

If Adam Dew and his pal, Joe Beason, had any thoughts of proving how credulous UFO investigators are for some kind of a documentary, they failed at that. This wouldn’t have worked had they provided high quality scans of all of the slides to researchers. Given that, those researchers would have been able to read the placard in a matter of hours. How do I know? Because within hours of a high resolution scan appearing on Dew’s website, the placard was read.

I’ll throw one other thing out here. I believe that the mystery caller who told Nick Redfern about all this, the man who allegedly overheard a conversation in Midland, Texas, was probably either Beason, Dew or a pal of theirs. The idea that someone in Midland overheard this conversation, heard enough to understand so much of what was going on including the nondisclosure agreements, and then knew Nick Redfern, is just too much of a coincidence. It had to be arranged so that the story would get out and the hype could begin. And the hype did begin right there.


This should have never happened. It was a combination of the secrecy imposed by Dew and Beason and the enthusiasm of the Roswell investigators for the final “smoking gun” evidence. Had anyone looked at all the red flags and asked some very basic questions, this would have been seen for what it was. The majority of the blame probably belongs to Dew and Beason, but there is plenty to be shared by the others who participated in the long investigation and the program in Mexico City. We should all learn from this and change the way we do business.

47 comments:

Stephen Jackson said...

Has there been any word whatsoever from Dew since all this new evidence? I know he initially said the placard deblurring was questionable but I've seen nothing from him since. Maybe hiding in shame?

Tom said...

This was obviously an attempted hoax. How many were involved, we will never know. Perhaps it begins and ends with Dew & Beason.

Regardless, it boggles my mind how anyone could go along with the mummy's supposed connection to Roswell. The backstory put out by the Sliders was preposterous. Not one of those folks thought to vette it? This patently absurd tortured attempt to tie the mummy to Roswell is what causes me to think that nefarious intentions were in play by more than just a few.

Gurkenstein said...

I want to echo Tom's comment. This is also my principal objection to Richard Dolan's rather flippant dismissal of his involvement in this entire garbage case, to roughly paraphrase, "well, I'm only human and we all make mistakes, get over it already, jeesh..."

It didn't take 20 years in academia to ask simple questions about provenance to come to the conclusion that whatever the slides were or weren't, they had absolutely nothing to do with what allegedly happened at Roswell, at all.

His participation and judgment are drawn into question, and it casts a far-reaching shadow over a lot of his hypothetical speculation since he relies heavily on anonymous sources, supposedly reaching deep into the upper levels of the MIC. He spins a good yarn, that's about it. I'd keep him at an arm's length distance though concerning serious research, since he doesn't seem capable of it.

Richard, you blew it big time.

Tom said...

Gurkenstein,

Yup. Dolan has proven himself to be quite the scholarly historian in this whole dealio. As you noted, his previous work now needs additional scrutiny. I read one of his books. On the surface, it looks like he did a lot of research. Many footnotes. But, these footnotes are to previously published works by other authors, who are simply quoting what an eyewitness said. His citations look valid, but in actuality, are dead ends, providing no actual proof of anything. In academia, his published works would be completely dismissed for this.

Dolan's role is tertiary. He quotes people who have quoted yet other people. No actual research done here. Zero. I believe he surfs the net, finds information which supports his thesis, excludes any contradictory information, then compiles it all into a book. I truly believe this to be his Modus Operandi.

Dolan is not a historical scholar. He is a compiler of dubious old UFO yarns, which he presents as facts. His fans, the Mulderites, need to wake up to this fact. Here's to hoping that Dolan reaps what he sows; that he gets marginalized right into Richard Hoagland-land.

cda said...

"How did they make that first incredibly dumb leap of logic?"

You can go farther back and ask exactly the same question about the whole Roswell 'ET crash' affair, since its inception with the Berlitz-Moore book in 1980.

How did those writers, together with Friedman, make THEIR incredibly dumb leap of logic in the first place?

But I realise this may be off-topic.

Peter Mueller said...

it is nice to see someone else make a turnaround, to me this is the most important thing of all out of this; to see who just has integrity as a person (those that have since admitted they were incorrect), and who is in it for the money (Dolan) and who is just plain despicable (Maussaun, Dew). With Carey and Schmitt I think its a combination of over-zealousness and greed, and I do hope they also make a turnaround, and soon, to save face. There is no way in hell I will be buying any of their books, but I think it would have helped them if they had at least admitted they were wrong, and stuck to it.

Again, a congratulations is in order for those who have admitted they were incorrect in their assumptions. And to those who haven't, youre only showing the world, quite frankly how stupid, or greedy, or both, you really are.

KRandle said...

Tom -

I sort of covered this in a post from 2014, which you can read here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-rb-47-case-american-airlines-and.html

CDA -

The difference, if I have to mention it, is that those looking at the slides had nothing other than the slides and their imagination to lead them to an alien. Even without seeing the slides, many of us wondered if that might not be the answer.

With the Roswell case, they not only had the debris to handle, but if you accept the testimony of so many others (and yes, I know you don't) there was more to it, including the retrieval of a craft and the recovery of the bodies. That was why those in Roswell made the leap to alien.

Brian Bell said...

Well the answer rests in the fact that the promoters of the slides and the BeWitness event all have "agendas" which exclude any real desire to research or check facts.

Their agendas vary, but for some of them it clearly seems to be money-motivated and self-serviced image boosting that they seek.

This perhaps co-mingled with a very strong belief that beyond any doubt there "is an alien behind every bush" as they say.

In a nutshell, they are literally in the business of promoting alien visitation. It's how they make their living.....

Tom said...

Kevin,

Ok, back on topic. I'm dubious of Dr. O'Connor. Yes, he now admits what everybody has known all along - it's a picture of a human mummy.

But, how could he proclaim it initially as being non-human? This is just as inexplicable as the rest of this fiasco. How could someone with his credentials say such things? He was duped? By what? A blurry photograph that still clearly depicted a mummified human on a shelf in a glass display case? From a blurry photograph he could make such a definitive statement? THIS is what duped him? It makes no sense to me any way one slices it.

David Rudiak said...

CDA wrote:
"How did they make that first incredibly dumb leap of logic?"

You can go farther back and ask exactly the same question about the whole Roswell 'ET crash' affair, since its inception with the Berlitz-Moore book in 1980.

How did those writers, together with Friedman, make THEIR incredibly dumb leap of logic in the first place?

But I realise this may be off-topic.


"How did they make that first incredibly dumb leap of logic?"

You can go farther back and ask exactly the same question about the whole Roswell 'Mogul balloon crash' affair, since its inception with Robert Todd, Karl Pflock, and the AFOSI Roswell debunking report in 1994. (That's where a cancelled, totally nonexistent balloon flight got conflated into the penultimate "explanation" for Roswell.)

How did those AFOSI writers, together with Todd and Pflock, make THEIR incredibly dumb leap of logic in the first place?

But I realise this may be off-topic.

Tom said...

Kevin,

I forgot to mention that your most plausible theory, which is probably spot on, pertaining to the Redfern phone call, is something I have not seen discussed anywhere but here. I know you mentioned this here a time or two prior, but this is an aspect I'd like to see gain more traction from all interested parties.

edward gehrman said...

Kevin,
It might be the lack of teeth, large eyes, no hair, strange joint connections,
large skull, pointed chin, strange rib cage, small nose and ears, and size (the average three year old human is 35-38 inches and the creature is 28 inches). This creature just doesn't look like a human. What human qualities do you see?
It was called a "child" until someone made the change to two and a half year old male. Why this change was made isn't clear.

This creature was a very important person to the Hopi and its hidden burial and other clues signifies that fact.

Have you read the Witherill report on his discovery:
"In this small space I found, after a few minute's work, the remains of at least half a dozen children, one of which
is a very fair mummy. All of these, except the mummy, were in a promiscuous
mass and nothing with them, The mummy was the lower burial, and it rested in
a very small excavation next to the rock on the floor of the cave. It was
laid straight out; head to the east; face south hands at its sides. A bowl was
found at the left of the head, and a small bow and arrows were lying lengthwise
at the right side. The body is wrapped in cotton cloth, which is still
in a state of good preservation. The grave was covered with small, round
sticks placed three or four inches apart and parallel with each other, supporting
a rush mat which had been spread over the grave. Over all this was
about two feet of debris, among which was found so many other remains."

We shouldn't rush to judgment on this. Kiva means ant-house and the covering to the Kiva entrance is a woven mat. The creature is also covered by a woven mat.
Don't you find this strange? The Hopi lived with the Ant people during the 'Ice Age" and when they moved back out to the third world, they had to push away a woven mat covering the entrance to the underworld.
Ed

Tom said...

Oh. My. Goodness.

TheDimov said...

..someone clearly wants to get their money's worth from the BeWitness event, lol.

Either that or they are a complete and utter imbecile needing medication immediately. I know it hurts Ed, I know. I wouldn't want to have paid for BeWitness either, that would have riled me no end.

Daniel Transit said...

Ed,

That's great stuff, very interesting.

The following is 2 paragraphs from a book called 'Beautiful Simplicity' by Karen Degenhart, published 1994. They follow her reference to the Roswell UFO crash in the previous paragraph... and, early on in the chapter (four) she refers to there being '..an ancient Indian Ruin.. with a huge Indian Kiva...' at Aztec, New Mexico ('It was a delight to take a tour of this ancient site'):

'Another interesting synchronicity is that there is also supposed to have been a UFO crash near Aztec, New Mexico! Of course, there is always debate as to whether each case is genuine or not. But, even the rumor of a UFO crash at Aztec is fascinating to me now, because I have been there, with Tanya, who was in Aztec, New Mexico searching for a flying saucer buried under a pyramid! And she was led there by a dream. Weird coincidences. And I did not find out about the Aztec crash story until 1993! When that kind of information reveals itself, I think back to my previous experience that seemed to foreshadow my present situation, and it always amazes me.

Later in 1993, I found some theories about secret underground military bases in the Four Corners area, where the Government is said to be working in league with aliens, or at least developing "alien" type of technology, especially what we now call, "flying saucer" type crafts. I'm just dropping this clue here to show the reader that perhaps the rumor about "a flying saucer under a pyramid," was alluding to the fact that these craft are hidden underground. There are a lot of pyramid shaped mesas in that area -- I, myself, noticed one hill at Mesa Verde Campground that was pyramid shaped. I will discuss the "secret underground base" theory more in depth later in this book....'

Brian Bell said...

I think if "ant people" were alive underground in nests or hives we would know about it.

There are far too many commercial enterprises underground to have never bumped into these insect creatures.

While some Indian legends have a basis in truth, not ALL legends have a basis in truth. There are many Native American legends that are simply legends...that's all.

I highly doubt this mummy is another species of terrestrial human or insect. I think that's just wishful thinking trying to counter the fact this turned out to be a human mummified body.

edward gehrman said...

"if "ant people" were alive underground in nests or hives we would know about it."


Brian,
We do know about it; we call the ant people aliens, (AKA ET).

Their story could be as simple as this: A volcano erupted in the area of the desert where the Hopi ancestors lived. They were assisted and/or evacuated by the aliens who Hopi thought looked like ant people and the myth was created.

The creature found by Witherill could be a small gray so often described in abduction accounts or a small, deformed child. We'll never know unless we study it carefully.

Does anyone know where we can find the translated reports of the experts who first examined the slides of the creature.
Ed

KRandle said...

All -

I've let this go on too long. This whole line of thought, about ant people, is as ridiculous as hanging onto the idea that the alien autopsy was real. The documentation and examination of the mummy tell us it was a human. We've gone from an alien killed in the crash near Roswell to the idea that it is the remains of some kind of ant creature (can anyone say "Ender's Game)that lives inside the Earth. I'm tempted to delete the posts on this, but will let them stand, but any further discussion of this nonsense will be deleted.

Don Maor said...

Ton wrote:

"Dolan's role is tertiary. He quotes people who have quoted yet other people. No actual research done here. Zero. I believe he surfs the net, finds information which supports his thesis, excludes any contradictory information, then compiles it all into a book. I truly believe this to be his Modus Operandi."

Quoting is the role of historians so I wouldn't be so hard about Dolan about it. Regarding original research, it seems that it was Dolan who found the letter by Klass trying to discredit Friedman in the eyes of canadian scientists. Shame on Klass (again).

I did read Dolan's first volume "UFOs and the National Security State" and it was imho an excellent read. Please Tom, feel free to try to write such a book just browsing in the web, and we speak later.

I am now reading the second volume and although it has more components related to conspiracies and weird researchers, it still has the historical perspetive of the first book.

cda said...

Don Maor:

What makes you think it was Dolan who found this letter from Klass to a group of Canadian scientists? I have, admittedly vague, memories of this letter which was intended to discredit Friedman. I believe it was written soon after Friedman moved to New Brunswick, as a warning of Friedman's strong UFO ET inclinations. Where did Dolan locate it, and when? I do wonder if it was indeed Dolan who found it at all, and that some other researcher got it first. When was it first made public?

Kevin:

Re ant people, presumably you prefer Gerald Heard's 'bees from Mars', or should I keep off both topics? Rest assured I will in future.

Curt Collins said...

Jaime Maussan denies the overwhelming evidence and is spinning a conspiracy theory about altered photographs as seen in this article he's circulating: http://www.theufochronicles.com/2015/06/the-roswell-slides-two-bodies.html

He claims there are more than two bodies, and says the NPS photos have been manipulated. As for the changes of mind by researchers and experts, he says someone got to them:
"It is regrettable that several researchers have retracted their investigations due to the threats and pressure they have suffered."

KRandle said...

CDA -

I explained all this long ago right here, including the information about Dolan finding the Friedman letter. See:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2011/09/philip-klass-and-his-letter-writing.html

And you are close to getting deleted with the comment about the Martian Bees... I'm watching you.

Don Maor said...

"What makes you think it was Dolan who found this letter from Klass to a group of Canadian scientists?"

mmm, the reality?

"I believe it was written soon after Friedman moved to New Brunswick, as a warning of Friedman's strong UFO ET inclinations."

Your description of what was klass doing is too polite, I would say that lord Klass was closer to be a "son of" with that letter.

"I do wonder if it was indeed Dolan who found it at all, and that some other researcher got it first."

Yes CDA, I know you like to replace reality with your beliefs, but reality seems to be ruthless. Also, nuns DO write diaries, goverments CAN and DO keep secrets, the SOM-01 INDEED contains text from REAL documents of the 1954 era, etc.

cda said...

Don:

OK so Dolan has done some useful research. Maybe he is able to locate certain genuine documents but useless when it comes to interpreting certain photographs. And yes, maybe SOM-01 does indeed contain text from (some) real documents. And interspersed with that text is a load of pure fiction. But wonderful, exciting stuff, isn't it?

David Halperin said...

"No one has ever offered an explanation of how we got from the image of what is clearly a mummy to the idea that it was the body of an alien creature."
I'm not sure what I've offered on my blog is an explanation: http://www.davidhalperin.net/the-roswell-slides-and-neil-degrasse-tyson/. But I think it points in the direction in which we're to look.
Many thanks for your excellent posts on the slides.

Don Maor said...

CDA wrote:
"OK so Dolan has done some useful research. Maybe he is able to locate certain genuine documents but useless when it comes to interpreting certain photographs. "

Let's say that Dolan was very wrong in his interpretation of slide images shown to him. But on the other hand, being wrong sometimes is a human feature, just like you have been wrong on about a hundred of things in all these years I have been seeing your posts on this blog.

CDA wrote:
"And yes, maybe SOM-01 does indeed contain text from (some) real documents. And interspersed with that text is a load of pure fiction. But wonderful, exciting stuff, isn't it?"

Oh, but in an older post you claimed with much confidence that the SOM-01 was either 100% fake or 100% real, with no intermediate possibility. Now you claim exactly the opposite. Were you wrong with your older statement? Are you useless as a thinker because of that error?

I am NOT convinced that the SOM-01 is a work of fiction. The Woods have presented intriguing information to the veracity of the whole document. I myself have found that the numbers on body sizes and body heights of beings reported in the SOM-01 are numerically consistent in many ways, and thus credible in principle.

KRandle said...

All -

This discussion of the SOM-01 is irrelevant to this discussion and ends now.

Tom said...

David - I read your article. Your theory on why the Sliders and their experts were mistaken has a large hole in it. They all were able to view the photograph for much longer than a few seconds. In some cases, years.

Brian Bell said...

I think the explanation (again) probably goes like this:

1) Dew had slides and presented them to Schmitt and Carey...Dew said "it's an alien".

2) Becasue Schmitt and Carey want to promote anything Roswell and anything alien related to Roswell they took the images at face value - realizing that if it wasn't alien it didn't matter anyway cause the could make $$$ from the promotion of such a thing timed somewhat as a precursor to their book release. Dollars flashed before their eyes....

3) Maussan, looking to make $$$ from anything alien also said he would help promote it...."bring it to Mexico" where we can get a good crowd and make more $$$.

Hence nothing was ever researched....at all.

Just another scam as we all know.

cda said...

Why is it all $$$ anyway? Hasn't anyone got the enterprise to bring it to the UK where they can earn lots of £££, or is it too late now? Oh, I forgot - it is not Roswell but Rendlesham that needs some slides and/or movies to bring in the £££.

Next year maybe.

Lawrence said...

As CDA points out, the real blunder is believing in the Roswell ET crash in the first place (with a religious fervour I might add, because that's what this is), and the ET hypothesis re ufology as a whole; but you know don't let the most pathetic affair yet in the Roswell saga (which is saying a lot!) call into question the belief in a Roswell crash in the first place. We can't have that now. So no nothing's been learned.

I'm reminded of how people will still believe in the Church even after all the swindles, Inquisitions, witch-hunts, support for dubious status quos in society and what-have-you, rationalizing the corruption, cruelty and infighting of the Churches as neither here nor there as far as the belief in Christianity is concerned, salvation in Jesus etc. Then again, we would expect the same from the Roswell believers no matter what, because that's the way irrational religious belief works. That this is merely the new religion for the alienated age (there's a pun there people, this is not a coincidence) of modern man, in the age of science fiction and the space race (or post the space race one supposes) has been commented on for decades, plus it's simply obvious. Well to those of us not enamoured of the B grade science fiction religion.

But go on believing. True believers are going to true believe.

Gurkenstein said...

@Lawrence

Yes. So much silliness. But apparently not quite that silly, you did after all find time from your very busy schedule to come and share this precious insight with us, didn't you.

@Brian Bell

You forgot one thing Brian. Mausan apparently reached out to several "brandname" ufologists in the hopes of roping them in to lend credence to the event. With Kevin's permission, I'd like to post a link to Stan's comment on this, because in my opinion Stan's comments and actions are everything Richard Dolan's should have been and weren't. I think the Dolan fanboys can learn something here.

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2015/03/stanton-friedman-chimes-in-on-alleged.html

KRandle said...

Lawrence -

Your profound insights are a little late. Many of us realized long ago that some of those who accept the alien solution for UFOs do it in with a religious passion. Some of us realized that another case of lights in the night sky were not going to provide any new information but rather fill file cabinets with more reports that couldn't be resolved because there were some cases in which the mundane could not be identified. We all got that long ago, so you point is lost.

If you are annoyed with the Roswell Slides fiasco, as so many of us are, provide a solution to the dilemma. What would you do? Abandon the research because you have an answer that satisfies you? Should we all just follow along because you believe you have the solution?

Gurkenstein -

I don't mind you providing a reference to another site that has information you find useful. I do mind when I covered the same material here on April 8. The information is not new.

Brian Mundy said...

I believe that the solution to this is to stop talking about it!I mean really, this has gone too long, I think. I respect your work, KRandle, and don't think it's worth any more of your time, or any other serious researcher of this subject...I mean, nip it in the bud now, I'd hate to be reading about this in 10 years I had to get this off of my chest, thank you

KRandle said...

Brian -

I get it and want to bury this controversy as completely as possible. I believe that the way to keep from having this discussion ten years from now is to make all this information available. In this case, one of the the medical specialists, one of those with the credentials to make observations, had reversed his position. He had once thought the body alien but now, based on all this evidence, has said that he is wrong. That is the way to end this. Point to those involved and what they have to say today. If Adam Dew or Joe Beason would make a public statement that has relevance, I would point it out. I believe that these sorts of things will bury this so that it becomes a footnote (just as Gerald Anderson should be and Frank Kaufmann now is).

I agree that this is no longer worth our time or effort, but if we get some of the other participants in this fiasco to admit their error, we go a long way in completing all this and it will disappear.

eBikesRC said...

Kevin Randle wrote: "I’ll throw one other thing out here. I believe that the mystery caller who told Nick Redfern about all this, the man who allegedly overheard a conversation in Midland, Texas, was probably either Beason, Dew or a pal of theirs. The idea that someone in Midland overheard this conversation, heard enough to understand so much of what was going on including the nondisclosure agreements, and then knew Nick Redfern, is just too much of a coincidence. It had to be arranged so that the story would get out and the hype could begin. And the hype did begin right there."

I'll give you some buzz and beeswax that is not about the bee people... ;=)

Nick tells the full story about this Midland telephone conversation in an interview with Greg Bishop on radiomisterioso.com It's available as a free download. Also, if you search on my ebikesrc and Redfern's blog or Google, [try Midland ebikesrc] then you can find the post I made to Nick at his blog about the meaning of this telephone conversation he had with the guy from Midland. Nick replied in detail about what he thought it was all about. This was more than a year IIRC after Midland happened and the slide hype was reaching its peak this year about the May 5th event, I was criminally hacked in that exact time frame too [no BS], so Nick had plenty of time to reflect about what Midland meant well after Nick was hacked and had received that phone call. Here's a link that might work about it: http://nickredfernfortean.blogspot.com/2015/02/more-roswell-slides-info.html

Brian Bell said...

It may take awhile before other "experts" paid or be-friended by the Sliders come forward or defect. If they were paid I think they will not. Of course we don't know if they were paid or not either. It seems very odd that any of them, including O'Connor, would have made a diagnosis and proclamation from the slide alone - blurry or high resolution. That's not normal behavior for most MD's IMHO.

With egos and reputations at stake I think we might see only continued silence on their part.

starman said...

@Lawrence, it is stupid to compare belief in an ET Roswell with belief in christianity. The latter is wholly irrational whereas the idea of alien visitors is definitely not. WE are ETs, from the point of view of the rest of the Universe. Whereas everything about christianity is bunk, at least some of the Roswell accounts (e.g. Marcel's testimony) are credible. Indeed the alternative to ET, MOGUL, has been debunked. But to prevent belief in an ET event from becoming well established, the powers that be apparently have resorted to one scam after another to make believers look like idiots.
The minute I heard about the so called roswell slides, I automatically assumed they were a hoax. I didn't waste any time or energy on this. It's not just that we've been let down before, like with santilli. As long as there's a policy of secrecy, how can anybody get away with revealing proof? More often than not, new "evidence" is garbage, intended to muck up the whole field. We'll never see any real proof until there's official disclosure. And I don't think the requisite conditions for that will exist for many more years.

starman said...

Correction: I should've written "WE are aliens, from the point of view of the rest of the Universe."

Brian Bell said...

As a side note, the following blog provides commentary on MUFONs decision to continue to support Maussan as a key note speaker at their upcoming 2015 Symposium.

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2015/06/ufo-community-members-weigh-in-on.html?m=1

Given the slides issue, it is amazing that Maussan and others are still seen as expert researchers in UFOlogy. Just bad science and a will to believe I guess...

Rusty Lingenfelter said...

It really isn't amazing as there is no standard for "expert" on either the ETH or skeptic side. Expertise is tied to the frequency and sensationalism of communication and participation in the mutual admiration society that characterizes both sides.

cda said...

Starman:

"We'll never see any real proof until there's official disclosure. And I don't think the requisite conditions for that will exist for many more years."

The "requisite conditions" exist right now, and there is no reason whatever for withholding disclosure if the hard evidence really exists. But the ONLY way the Roswell ET proponents can get any credence for their thesis is to constantly regale us with the idea that government policy (in the US) is to withhold perhaps the greatest discovery of all time from the scientific world, and the public, literally forever. Hence the 'Disclosure Project', etc.

ETHers would have us believe that hardware & bodies are still in the hands of some high up secret agency, never to be revealed despite the obvious risks (of further crashes elsewhere) involved.

Yes the slides fiasco and the Santilli film were purely to keep the Roswell myth alive, and more will very likely follow in years to come. The only reason these tales get any credence or attention is because the originators know there will always be a receptive audience, based largely on the 'Roswell conspiracy' myth.

By the way, not ALL of Christianity is bunk either, even if some of it is.

albert said...

@cda,

"...By the way, not ALL of Christianity is bunk either, even if some of it is...."
I'm interested in seeing what parts aren't bunk.
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Christianity, and most widely-practiced religions, are based on beliefs in invisible beings that are omniscient, possess magical powers, that created the universe, that inspired men to write down their directives on how we must live, do what they say or be punished, etc. So I guess we can throw away any pretense of rationality.

Best definition of 'bunk': "a trough for feeding cattle" (dictionary.com)

ET theory suggests that there are other intelligent, sentient beings in the universe. Many atheistic scientists allow that possibility. It's a _theory_. It's not presented as a fact with metaphysical certitude. Religions rely on blind acceptance of irrational beliefs.

Yeah, there are some ET religionists, but there are also those for whom 'science' is a religion.
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cda said...

Albert:

"I'm interested in seeing what parts aren't bunk."

Sorry but Kevin chastises people and deletes stuff that is off-topic, so I decline to go further on this. It is is a dangerous topic to get involved in anyway.

albert said...

@cda,
Dangerous; I get it. I just pointed out that many things can be 'religions'. When rationality is abandoned, danger can creep in.

I don't think we need worry about a sudden outbreak of organized ET believers/disbelievers, Rational Humanism, Buddhism, or Jainism.

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Paul Young said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave said...

The SmartDeblur utility was available years ago. There's no doubt in my mind that had a higher-res photo been available of the slides that it would have been deblurred at that time.