This
week I talked with Larry Holcombe about his book, The Presidents and UFOs: A Secret History from FDR to Obama. It was
a wide-ranging interview that took in a lot of territory. You can list to it
here:
There
are a couple of points that we need to clarify. We talked about Doug Locke, who
had said that as a judo instructor at Biggs Air Force Base in El Paso, he had
learned about the Roswell crash from several pilots sent there for training. I
knew it as Biggs Army Air Field, which is not a big difference but a difference
none-the-less. Checking the history of the base, I learned that in the 1950s it
had been Biggs AFB, and that the name later had been changed back to Biggs AAF.
So, both Larry and I had been right about it. That it had been an Air Force
base in the early 1950s added a note of credibility to Locke’s tale.
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| Front gate at Biggs Air Force Base, El Paso, TX. |
I
probably should note here that I did press Larry on the vetting of Locke’s
military experience. The problem was when he mentioned that Locke’s military
records had been lost in the fire at the St. Louis Records Center in the big
1973 fire. Oh, there is no doubt there had been a fire and that tens of
thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of records had been lost. Claiming that
“my records were burned in the fire,” is the standard dodge of those making up
their tales of military service. In this case, I think the problem was more that
Larry didn’t understand my question. Some of Locke’s records had apparently
survived or had been reconstructed, so
that his military service was confirmed
by an independent, disinterested source. I think that became clear in the show.
 |
| Larry Holcombe |
The
other point was Jimmy Carter’s UFO sighting. I said that he had made it while
governor of Georgia and Larry said it was before he was governor. Turns out
that the sighting was made in 1969 but wasn’t reported until 1973 after Carter
became governor.
Either
way, the sighting is not a very good one. According to the latest data it seems
that on an evening in 1969, the exact date of which has not been confirmed,
Carter, with a group of others saw an object about 30 degrees above the
horizon. Carter said it was bright white and about as bright as the moon,
rather than the size of the moon. The object seemed to approach and then
recede.
Although
Carter said about twenty people saw the object at the same time he did, none of
those people have been found. Given that, and the controversy (yeah,
controversy is a bit harsh) over the date, it is difficult to put a conclusion
on the sighting. Originally, it was suggested that Venus was the culprit, but
later, Air Force tests conducted around Eglin Air Force Base, seem to have
provided a better solution, especially if the date of January 6, 1969, is
accurate. Anyway, you can read more about that here:
and
here:
and
here:
Larry
and I did discuss MJ-12, who might have had a hand in creating the documents
and if there were elements of authenticity in them. I suggested a fatal flaw in
what is known as the Eisenhower Briefing Document and you can read about it
here:
and
the tale of Robert Willingham here:
And,
if you wish to read the whole story of MJ-12 as it stands today, look for Case MJ-12, but be sure it is the 2018 updated
version. There is new information added to the 2000 edition.
Next
week, I’ll be talking with Mark O’Connell, who wrote the biography of J. Allen
Hynek. The conversation will be framed with the treatment of Hynek in History’s
Project Blue Book but we’ll also look
at some of the controversy Hynek created with his swamp gas explanation for the
Michigan UFO sightings in 1966 and his adventures working for the Air Force.
If
you have any questions for Mark, add a comment here and I’ll try to get them
answered for you during the program.
3 comments:
Having read Hynek's books (I have them in my library), I have three questions for Mark: First, did Hynek ever compile a list of those cases (say, ten or so) that he felt were truly unexplainable? Second, did Hynek ever regret his membership in the Robertson Panel? And third, who did Hynek feel were the best witnesses? Law enforcement officers, military personnel, air traffic controllers, and pilots/aircrew would be at the top, one thinks.
Sorry, Kevin.
I enjoy your podcasts but this one was a 'tough' one to sit through. Larry seem to struggle during this interview and didn't seem to do well to give his audience any confidence that his book would be well written. Maybe I'm wrong.
That certainly wasn't my intention. I try to facilitate the conversation, with only a couple of exceptions such as when I find the guest saying things that are simply untrue. Evidence is the rule and I will note that I find testimony as a form of evidence, though not the best form. I was surprised that Larry struggled to answer some of the questions. As he said, he should have been a little better prepared. I did email and told him it wasn't my intention to make him look bad... and he acknowledged there that he should have been better able to discuss his book.
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