Thursday, September 15, 2016

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Ben Moss/Tony Angiola (Zamora Sighting)

This week’s show concerned the Socorro, New Mexico UFO landing and occupant sighting of April 24, 1964. My guests were Ben Moss and Tony Angiola of MUFON Virginia and their website can be found at The interview can be found here:

True Symbol
What was interesting in this interview, or what caught my attention was the discussion of the symbol that Lonnie Zamora reported on the side of the object. According to Moss and Angiola, the symbol that we all believed to be the correct one, the symbol that has been featured in magazines and documentaries, is wrong. Zamora was forced, by the Air Force, according to Moss and Angiola, to change the symbol from the inverted “V” with three horizontal lines through it to what I think of as the umbrella over an arrow. Moss and Angiola said they had found newspaper references to the correct symbol in the days that followed Zamora’s report. Rich Reynolds over at the UFO
Fake Symbol
blog has explored this question several times.

The other points they made were that there had been reports of the object made to the Socorro police before Zamora’s sighing, that other police officers had seen something as well, that two men had reported seeing the same object as Zamora, and that others had seen similar objects around the area before and after Zamora. I have explored some of this in the past. See:

The program airs on Saturday and Sunday nights at 9:00 p.m. and at various times during the week over several different aspects of the X-Zone Broadcast Networks. For a complete listing, see:

Next week’s guest: Curt Collins
Topic: The Roswell Slides and the Cash/Landrum UFO sighting.

For those who have questions, you can leave them in the comments section of this blog. 


RRRGroup said...

I'm surprised at the emphasis these fellows put on Ray Stanford.


Tim Hebert said...

I brought this up over at Rich's site some while ago. Has anyone considered the emblem for Air Force Systems Command?

It this has been looked at and discarded as a source, then my apologies. But there may be some resemblance to what was seen.

Tim H.

Daniel Transit said...

'I have also confirmed the existence of alien material at a hanger designated HANGER 1051 at Edwards AFB. Below is the insignia that is on the alien craft. It is called a TRILATERAL INSIGNIA. I do not know what it means. It is in GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK No.13 and my sources confirm that this is the alien flag, so to speak. It is an equilateral triangle divided by three parallel lines...'

[Bill Cooper Statement, December 18, 1988]

'...There were two other alien symbols in the naval intelligence papers I saw in 1972...' (details, etc. follow)

[Bill Cooper Statement, Dec. 18 1988]

Text and all three symbols are to be found on page 191 of Linda Moulton Howe 'An Alien Harvest'.

The only notable difference between the alien 'trilateral' insignia described back in 1988 by Milton William Cooper and the claimed 'true' Socorro symbol is that the one revealed, or claimed to exist by Bill Cooper has the lowest of the three horizontal lines at the base of the inverted V rather than some way up.

RRRGroup said...

Jose Caravaca also sees a resemblance to a military emblem.

I have garnered a raft of books about symbols, hoping to find something not just similar but almost exact in design.

(However, I'm not so sure that the inverted V is the real symbol, as I've noted, and will revisit upcoming.)

Kevin interviewees seemed a little tentative about their findings, and didn't get very positive even when Kevin pressed them for specifics.


Wayne Patterson said...

Ben moss has, on other venues shown himself to behave in a very negative manner to people questioning his reliance on Ray stanford....I find Stanford's association with Adamski, his near cult he had at one point, problematic......
These guests references to paoli Harris are also troubling...........I don't get a guy with moss's background being so susceptible to stanford..........maybe the hangar 18 deal is a factor, but what they refer to as "evidence" mostly based on stanford is not something to put weight to.
Stanford always "has tons of evidence" that he is showing to government scientists, that never releases......but never mind, he found dinosaur bones, and stayed at a holiday inn express last night

Wayne Patterson said...

2nd comment, just finished interview, no confirmation of reports, or witnesses, almost as if they read three old ufo books, called Ray stanford, and case closed...................maybe back to ufo investigation school......that "star" team is one elite cadre (sarc)

Shane said...

Why was there no discussion of the photos of the craft taken, apparently, by Ray Stanford some time after the incident? It has been claimed that there are several such photos.

KRandle said...

Shane -

I have just over 45 minutes for the interviews and no one has published any high quality pictures of the alleged craft, not to mention that the pictures, while taken in the area or around the time of the Zamora sighting, none of them are of the Zamora craft. I was more interested in the documentation that had been claimed... especially if that documentation was in a police log which would give the time and date.

Shane said...

Thank you Kevin. I understand you were working with a time limit. I thought I had read that the photos showed a craft or crafts that looked exactly like the one Lonnie Zamora had described. Given that, it seemed to me that any such photos would represent very important supporting evidence for the Socorro incident. Is it known if the photos were shown or discussed at the recent MUFON conference in Orlando?
Kind regards,
Shane, in Canberra.

KRandle said...

Daniel -

I don't think I would use Bill Cooper as a source since it is clear that he was making up stuff that suited him. He offered no evidence that he was who he claimed to be meaning that he had nothing to back up the claims he made about his Navy service... not to mention what he described as Blue Book Special Report No. 13 does not agree with what others who saw it claimed, and that no one has ever found a copy of the report with the proper provenance.

james tankersley said...

Kevin that symbol shown on your post that is supposed to be what Lonnie Zamora saw on the egg shaped craft is really compelling because according to the book THE BLUE PLANET PROJECT, it is an alien sign that was found on some crashed UFOs and it supposedly stands for a TRILATERAL INSIGNIA (TRIADE) and since it was found on alien craft stored at Edwards Air Force base, it is no wonder the Air Force wanted Lonnie Zamora to change his description of that symbol he saw! This could be why they wanted him to do this, and if this is so, then it confirms the UFO Lonnie witnessed was indeed an alien space craft from another world! it amazed me when i saw this!

KRandle said...

Shane -

I asked a number of colleagues about these pictures of a Zamora-like craft but none had heard anything about them. I went back to Ben Moss who told me that he had seen a single picture that was apparently in the hands of Ray Stanford and if I understood this correctly, the picture had been taken by Stanford some time ago. I have no idea why he would have held onto it for so long before revealing it.

Shane said...

Thanks Kevin. I thought Ben and Tony were hoping to show this photo because of its importance to the investigation. However, they needed Ray Stanford's permission to do so. Perhaps Ben and Tony can elaborate on this for us on this forum.

As with the 1966 Westall Incident case,there were rumours that a teacher had taken photos of the craft there, and that the camera and film were confiscated by the RAAF, but I have never been able to substantiate that. For more information see: Cheers, Shane.

Paul Young said...

I can't help but think there are similarities with the 1979 UFO reported by Bob Taylor in Livingstone, Scotland, (obviously without the "sea mines") with the UFO described by Lonnie Zamora.

Similar, as in the seeming unsophistication of the build (as opposed to, say, Lazar's sport model flying saucer.)...and with the four landing struts.

Gilles Fernandez said...

Hello Kevin (and all),

I have two questions for your next guest, Curt Collins.

1) "As probably one (or among) the best documented and immersed individual on the case, what is your "deep conviction"?

2) "Concerning the "diamond shape" of the UFO: when I read or share all UFO things devoted on the case, artist drawing/sketches", it is fascinating me as an UFO-Skeptic: The diamond shape is something not present in the Ladies first narratives, but coming from Colby.
What is your (Curt) regard on all such sketches/artist, TV simulations, recreations/drawings SUPPOSED to illustrate the case"

Merci & Best regards,

Gilles Fernandez

Ben Moss said...

When preparing for our Socorro talk in Florida, and after over 2 years working on this 1964 case, of course we used materials from Ray Stanford. He is the only living ORIGINAL investigator who was there, and a friend of Dr. Hynek's. But we did use many other sources, and we were on site going thru records and newspaper articles. Ray himself had the wrong symbol in his excellent book "Socorro Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry". His research into the National Archives produced Dr. Hynek's original letter to BlueBook and FBI Officers, an inverted /\ with 3 bars thru it. Interviews days after the event have Hynek repeating that and Walter Schrode, of the local raio show, asking about that exact symbol. The comment about Paula was not nice, as we sat next to her table at the Mufon Symposium and chatted. She knows many people and was talking to us about Lonnie's relatives, nothing more.
Ray does indeed have the picture taken 120 days later at the landing site, and he decided to not let us present it due the fact that only he could elaborate on when, where and how the picture came to have multiple objects in the background with 2 being ellipsoid shaped and one showing 3 landing gear out.
Our presentation was well received and has led us to more leads. What we proved was that there was not a single agency, not Hughes, Bell, nor any military organization that produced this type of craft and NO ONE had anything flying in the area on April 24th, 1964.
Since the FBI, White House and Joint Chiefs of Staff, CIA and Blue Book officers were all asking everyone who could have been responsible for the sightings, they had to answer to them, and they all did in the negative.
I hope this helps clear up some of the questions here. Our presentation is available at for $15 and that goes straight to Mufon, not us.

KRandle said...

Ben -

I have delved into this a little deeper, found the letter supposedly "discovered" by Ray Stanford a couple of years ago, and searched through the Blue Book files. I have found several different versions of the symbol and the one Ray Stanford so belatedly found does not match what is being claimed today. I don't think we can sort this out given the documents in hand, the newspaper descriptions, the interviews that Hynek gave, and several other factors. While I was one time, in the last few weeks, satisfied that this had been resolved, I no longer think that it has.

Ben Moss said...

I emailed you Holders sons letter to Ray about the symbol being changed, I do not think anyone has seen that yet. It is further evidence that the symbol was changed.