Monday, September 15, 2014

Sam Bass, Aztec and Scott Ramsey

Here’s something that I have been thinking about for a while. Scott Ramsey and I debated the reality of the Aztec UFO. One of the witnesses to part of the story was a fellow named Bass who was nicknamed Sam. He reportedly knew something about the case but we couldn’t interview because he had been killed in a traffic accident in Vietnam. I mentioned that this name didn’t appear on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C., though they had tried to identify everyone who died there whether from combat, sickness or accident. In fact, they included the names of those who had been wounded, injured or fell ill in Vietnam but died outside the country.

This man’s name does not appear on the memorial.

I suggested this was a problem for the tale he told but Ramsey said that the sites that listed all the names of the dead said that they tried to get everyone, but they might have missed a name or two. It was through this door that Ramsey slipped.

I asked if he had the serial number of Bass, and Ramsey said that he did. I told him with that information we could get his service record and learn the truth. I volunteered to do it, but Ramsey would not supply the number. I told Ramsay how to secure the military record and as far as I know he has not done so.

Here’s where I am on this. If Bass was killed in Vietnam, he should be recognized for that service and his name should be added to the Wall. That has been done a couple of times. The documentation in Bass’ military records would provide the proof that he served in Vietnam and died in a traffic accident there.

This goes beyond the reality of the Aztec UFO crash. This is something that should be done for a man who served and died. His name should be added to the wall, and all that must be done is a simple records check from the NARA archives in St. Louis. It takes several weeks to get a response (they receive thousands of requests each week) but they would provide the information that he had served in Vietnam and that he had died there. I think it is something that should be done for the man and really has little to do with the Aztec UFO crash.

That is, if he existed and this is the right guy. So, the question really is, “Why hasn’t Ramsey sought this information, and once he had it, why hasn’t he released it?” That would bolster his case and provide the man the recognition deserved.

Ball’s in your court, Scott… let us know what you learn.


cda said...

Glad you brought in a new topic. The one on Trent's photos was, shall we say, getting not only out of hand but nowhere at all. And it never will.

But then as Gilles would say, that's ufology.

cda said...

Oh and discussion of Aztec (the UFO case) will likewise prove fruitless and get nowhere at all.

On the other hand, a study of the Aztecs (plural), i.e. the ancient inhabitants of Mexico, might prove very interesting, but I realise that is not the purpose of this blog.

KRandle said...


This is not a discussion about Aztec... it is a discussion about Sam Bass, a witness (of sorts) to part of this who is unavailable because, according to Scott Ramsey, he died in Vietnam. If true, and his name does not appear on the memorial, we have the opportunity to correct that with a bit of ease. Thought maybe Scott would want to do it since Scott said he has Bass' serial number so that we could access his military record.

starman said...

Lol, cda, the one on McMinnville IS getting somewhere, but not where you'd prefer. DR and AM have done some great work, and I hope to hear more.
Aztec is also getting somewhere. This post shows Ramsey is a phony and Bass and his alleged testimony are fictitious.

cda said...


Regarding McMinnville, AM wrote:

"I may just have broke the world record record in hours spent to end up back at my original opinion ...inconclusive."

Does this sound like AM is getting anywhere?

And no, DR isn't either, although he has applied a lot of engineering/physics analysis to the issue.

As for Aztec, words fail me. And no, nobody has shown Ramsey is a phony and Bass is fictitious. And would it really make that much difference if either or both were genuine?

KRandle said...


I have found no evidence that Sam Bass was killed in an accident in Vietnam. I have found no evidence that this guy ever served in Vietnam (which is to say, that I have been unable to confirm the claim as opposed to proving it false.) My argument is this: If Bass was killed in Vietnam and given that his name is not etched on the Vietnam Memorial, Ramsey has a duty to rectify the situation because he is in a position to do so. He knows the man's service number which would allow us to obtain his records and prove the claim.

Nothing was said here about Ramsey being a phony. He might be wrong, but he has spent a great deal of time and money investigating the case.

zoamchomsky said...

starman; If you still think that,

See the LIFE photo of Paul Trent with his truck's mirror positioned directly over his head. (Hint!)

In this case, one picture is worth a million of DR's diversionary mathemagical mumbo-jumbo manipulations.

KRandle said...

All -

Take the discussion on McMinnville to the last post... all references to it made after this will be deleted. This post has to do with Sam Bass.

cda said...


You searched for a guy named Bass but found no-one by that name having served in Vietnam, let alone being killed there. But you don't know his first name. Instead we hear that had a nickname Sam. Big deal!

There was a Sam Bass who was a 19th century train robber out west (see Wikipedia). So maybe the Aztec witness 'Sam Bass' adopted that name. Maybe.

And now Scott Ramsey won't tell you anything further. Does he know Bass's real first name, for instance?

Is not this whole dotty Aztec affair just plain laughable? Has it not been so right from the very start, with Scully's book?

Are there any other named witnesses? Has anyone tracked them down, or is the whole thing just another tale of the type "I know someone whose dad was there and he saw some refrigerated trucks with bodies..." and so on?

But perhaps I should keep quiet until the day I eventually read Ramsey's book. That day is, I fear, a very long probably infinite way off.

John Steiger said...

According to THE AZTEC INCIDENT by Scott and Suzanne Ramsey, at pp. 20-24, the first name of "Sam" Bass is Donald. Donald's nickname of "Sam" is acknowledged as being "like the old gun slinger". Ibid, p. 20. Query to Dr. Randle: Is it impossible to trace military records with a first name, last name, and an approximate time reference for the person's service?

KRandle said...


John answered the question before I could. Yes, I knew his first name.

John -

Because people share names and neither is that unusual, we need something more. ramsey said that he had Bass' service number and with that, it is a snap. I said I would do it, but no response. I told ramsey how to do it, and nothing has changed.

Lance said...

Saying Ramsey investigated the case is being too kind. He worshipped the case is about the best you say. It's a ridiculous worthless silly story.


KRandle said...

All -

For those interested, I knew the name was Donald Bass and conducted a search of those listed on the Vietnam Memorial, which can be done on line. Everything how died in Vietnam or of Vietnam related causes is listed. SInce the tale was that Bass died in a traffic accident, it was possible to search every Bass from every branch of our military who died in Vietnam. Those listed as combat losses obviously didn't fit the description, but I looked at everything. It was relatively simple.

At the Vietnam Memorial site, they mention that although they have attempted to list all the names, they might have missed someone. Although they have periodically added a few names, it seems unlikely that Bass was one of those missed. If Ramsey has his sevice number, then the records are very easy to access. I have managed to get records without a service number, but I need a date of birth, a home town, something to limit the search. Having the name Donald Bass is not quite enough, especially when Ramsey has that information. He can do it and then do the family an honor by getting Bass' name added... if, in fact, he died in Vietnam. Don't know why it hasn't been done yet.

Terry the Censor said...

When I read a UFO book, I make a little index on the blank endpages.

A popular item is "missing evidence": we are told about physical evidence, but the claimant cannot produce it and no one else has seen it. It's hearsay "physical" evidence.

Another item, less common but usually present in every fringe book I read, is "missing witnesses": witnesses whose testimony we are told about second-hand, but who are not produced -- sometimes they are not even named. This is our old-fashioned hearsay witness evidence.

It's amazing how often cases labelled "best-documented" or "most-investigated" will have these "missing" items in abundance. (Interrupted Journey is particularly rife with trunk spots, scuffed shoes, broken watches, etc., that are never produced, and Colebrook diner staff, Hill tenants, Hill relatives, scientists, sheriffs, etc., who could verify evidence and events but are never named or quoted.)

Lance said...

Scott Ramsey still showing his true colors here,huh?


Daniel Transit said...

The craft detailed by Frank Scully were said to have been constructed on a 'System of 9'.

Donald Bass : the strongest mental association I had with his surname was Bass clef -

The symbol for the bass clef resembles the numeral 9, with two dots at the side.

'Clef' translates as 'key.' This made me think of Donald Keyhoe aka Don Keyhoe.

And, then I recalled this story published on-line on September 19th -

Daniel Transit said...

September 18th, updated 19th.