The July 26 Congressional Hearing

 

For those interested, yes, I did sit through the whole UFO, I mean UAP, Congressional Hearing. And, no, unlike so many of my colleagues, I was unimpressed. I heard and saw nothing new here. I knew days ago, who the witnesses would be, and hoped that some of David Grusch’s sources would be revealed. With hints about sources, we could have begun the process of verification but without them, we just have some interesting tales that might be more fiction than fact.

The Hearing Room and the witnesses, back to the camera.

Here are some of the things that I noticed. There was a great deal of talk about transparency, but little talk about sources, sightings or results. There was a great deal of talk about national security, and most of us could figure out what that meant. Revelation that the US was in possession of alien spacecraft, or rather proof of that, could certainly affect national security. Our competitors in world would fear what we might learn about the operation of alien spacecraft and what sort of an advantage that would give us.

Representative Glenn Grothman, who chaired the panel asked if the witnesses thought that UAP pose a threat to national security.

Hearing chair, Rep. Glenn Grothman.

Commander David Fravor, the Navy pilot involved with the tic-tac sighting said, “Yes, and here’s why. The technology we faced was far superior to anything that we had… if you have one and you reversed engineered one, you could go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds and do whatever it wants and leaves and there is nothing we can do about it.”

Grothman asked about what kind of information is being hidden. Grusch, the alleged whistleblower said, “I can speak to that briefly in an unclassified matter…” But said nothing that he hadn’t said before and offered nothing in the way of evidence for his opinion.

Grusch was the one I wanted to hear and he was asked, finally, about the US having UAPs (he meant alien spacecraft) and said, “Absolutely, after interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years, I know the exact locations and those locations were supplied to the Inspector General… I actually had some people with first-hand knowledge provide protected disclosure to the Inspector General…”

David Grusch testifying in front of the Committee.

Which, of course, told us nothing that we didn’t know. As I have said, repeatedly, Don Schmitt, Tom Carey and I have talked with first-hand witnesses and we didn’t suggest it was information that couldn’t be shared in an open forum. We named names, cited locations, and even have some documentation related to all this.

Representative Tim Burchett asked if anyone had been harmed and Grusch said, “Yes, personally.” But it seemed that he was referring to interference with his job and bullying by his superiors. He said, “It was very brutal and very unfortunate, some of the tactics used to hurt me both professionally and personally.”

Representative Tim Burchett asking questions.

Again, Don, Tom and I have interviewed many people who reported they had been threatened. We specifically mentioned threats related to the Roswell UFO crash that included members of the military, the sheriff and several civilians. All documented in the various books that include names and dates. Just this month, I reviewed one of those cases when I spoke to Tim Saunders about what his father, Patrick Saunders had told him. You can read all that here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2023/07/patrick-saunders-covert-roswell.html

Burchett asked if he knew of anyone having been murdered. Grusch said, “I have to be careful answering that question. I directed people with the that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.” He said he was willing to discuss this in a closed environment, but gave us no hints about who that might have been killed, when the murder or murders might have happened, and where the investigation now stood.

Grusch continued in this vein throughout the hearing. He was asked for specifics, provided none, but suggested he would get into that in closed hearings. So much for transparency.

Representative Jared Moskowitz asked if he, Grusch, had met with people with a direct knowledge of non-human craft. Grusch said that he had personally interviewed those individuals. Again, Don, Tom, and I can say the same thing, citing specific generals and colonels, all of whom can be placed in positions to have witnessed these things. We talked with former counterintelligence agents (later Air Force OSI agents who had direct knowledge). We have also talked with civilians who had specific and direct knowledge such as Bill Brazel.

Moskowitz followed up by asking about crash sites and crash imagery. Grusch said, “I can’t go beyond what I have already stated publicly.” I thought that was a nice dodge of the question. This was the sort of thing that interested me, but each time someone had approached specifics, the answer was the same. Can’t go into it beyond what he had already said.

In what was an important question that I think was missed by many, Rep. Burchett asked about when the US became aware of these alien craft. Grusch said, “I like to use the term non-human (who really cares what you like). I don’t like to denote origin. It keeps the aperture open both scientifically and (he trailed off here and didn’t finish that thought)” and then said, “Like I have discussed publicly, the 1930s.”

This is a reference to the 1933 Italian crash, which colleagues in Italy have said is a hoax. I will note that even if true, the US wouldn’t have learned about it until the mid-1940s. I did a longer post on it and you can read it here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2023/06/david-grush-and-1933-italian-ufo-crash.html

Now we come to the nitty gritty. Burchett asked for the names and the titles of the people with direct first-hand knowledge about crash retrievals. And Grusch said, ‘I can’t discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information to both the intel committees and the Inspector General.”

This was what I had waited for. Names, organizations, maybe even a date or two but Grusch provided nothing other than that vague reference to the 1930s. He had said all this before.

While Ryan Graves, the other Navy pilot talked about interviewing some thirty other pilots about their encounters (without providing any names) he did mention a big sighting at Edwards Air Force Base by Boeing engineers and contractors. I mention this only because I didn’t want to leave him out. He was the third witness who didn’t add much to what we already knew about his experiences.

I suppose I should mention that I had written, in The Washington Nationals, a book about the sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C., information about pilot sightings at that time, including interviews with Air Force pilots involved in attempted intercepts of UFOs. Again, complete with names, locations and other source material.

And, of course, the Project Blue Book files are filled with the names of pilots who had reported UFOs. Since the end of Blue Book, hundreds of other pilots have reported seeing UFOs. In fact, I interviewed a man who had been an alternative pilot on Air Force One during the Kennedy administration who told me that he had seen a domed disk flying off the wing of his fighter in the years before he had flown Air Force One.

Finally, I mention this only because it was so jarring. Representative Eric Burlison wondered how these craft could travel billions of light years and then crash. It seemed to boggle his mind that a race that could conquer interstellar flight would end up crashing. Of course, they really didn’t have to travel billions of light years. The closest star system to Earth is a mere 4.1 light years away. And yes, the technology that would allow travel across that distance is still beyond our capability but his point was irrelevant.

In the end, we heard more about transparency and national security, and there were even some questions about black funding that had little to do with the purpose of the hearing. We didn’t get any specifics that we didn’t already have and we learned nothing that we didn’t already know… except that Grusch sticks with the 1933 Italian crash. Someone should tell him that it might just be a hoax and he should forget about it.

Some Thoughts on Rep. Don Bacon's Wednesday UFO Hearing

 

New York Democratic senator and Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, is pushing for legislation for a board review of classified documents that relate to UFOs, though they insist on calling them UAPs.

This is a rare bipartisan effort with Republican Senator Mike Rounds of South Dakota and Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida having voiced support for the legislation, which is attached to the National Defense Authorization Act.

This measure would require government agencies to organize their information on UFOs and provide it to a review board, which has yet to be established. The nine-member board would be appointed by President Biden. These would be people who would advocate disclosure but with an eye to national security. The President would have the authority override their decisions, which could mean providing more data or deleting some of it.

Two things about this bother me. One is that the data would be collected by the National Archives and two, the initial legislation was modeled after that passed for the release of documents relating to the Kennedy assassination. We all know how well that has gone and I will note here, apropos of nothing, that President Biden to override the release of the Kennedy files to some extent.

I will note one other point that strikes me as somewhat ironic. Some of this renewed interest in UFOs was sparked by the comments of whistleblower David Grusch. He talked of crashed craft, alien bodies and documentation. Don Schmitt and I have been talking about that for thirty years and unlike Grusch, we named names and presented documentation. For some reason the mainstream media was too sophisticated to pay attention us. I hope for better results now.

Don Schmitt and me on the Impact Site near Roswell, New Mexico.

In the previous post, I provided the name, CV, and some documentation related to what Patrick Saunders had said to me and what he told family and friends. I can think of no reason for him to have created this fantasy about having participated in the cover up, and telling his son about the craft and bodies. He also confirmed, in writing, much (some?) of what Don and I published in our earlier books about the UFO crash as I noted in the Post that follows this one.

And now we learn that on Wednesday, July 26, Tennessee Representative Tim Burchett, along with several colleagues will hold hearings about the latest in UFO information. Three of the witnesses being called to testify have been identified, and I have seen nothing to suggest there might be others on the list.

I am slightly disappointed because we will be treated to the same information that has been circulating for the last several months in some cases and a few years in others. Those being called are David Grusch, who has already said that he can’t name names at this point and that he can’t present documentation. Maybe at this hearing that will change, but without these sources available to be scrutinized, this is little more than hearsay.

The problem here is that Grusch mentioned a 1933 UFO crash and recovery in Italy. The material fell into American hands at the end of World War II. The story has been investigated by Italian UFO researchers and found to be no more reliable than the tales of MJ-12 that originated in this country. I explored this case just a few weeks ago and have to wonder that if I could learn as much as I did in a matter of hours, why Grusch believed the tale in the first place.

The other two are Ryan Graves and David Fravor, both former Navy pilots who have told their stories in the past. I’m not sure what more they can add to what has already been reported. They can just tell their stories again and I don’t know if there is going to be any sort of additional information about the sightings such as electronic confirmation.

Then there was the statement by Representative Don Bacon, a Republican from Nebraska, a retired brigadier general who told the Wall Street Journal that he had never seen a UFO, but “If I had, I’d have shot it down.”

What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. By what authority would he have shot it down? Were there standing orders that allowed him to engage a UFO? What makes him think that if he was attempting to engage a UFO, he would have been able to shoot it down? We have numerous tales by pilots in foreign lands who have engaged UFOs with no results. That would suggest that a technology that has defeated the problems of interstellar flight might be able to defeat an attack by conventional terrestrial weapons. The real problem is that such a cowboy move would suggest that we are a hostile race, probably not the image we would want to project to a spacefaring race.

And I see in his biography that he wasn’t a fighter pilot; he earned no Distinguished Flying Cross or Air Medals. Given his role in the Air Force, I’m not sure how it would have shot down anything at all. But I digress…

Getting back to the main point, I wonder if there are no additional witnesses, then what is the purpose here? If, on the other hand, Representative Burchett is looking for something more than a report of this information but would rather have some testimony about the UFO crashes that Grusch mentioned, then I suggest he examine the Roswell case. There are tapes, video and audio, from the men who were involved in the recovery operation. These range from Edwin Easley, the Roswell Provost Marshal who made it clear that he had been swore to secrecy to Patrick Saunders who talked about threats he took seriously. You can read some of that on the posting that follows.

All I am saying is that we know what the men who have been identified as witnesses are going to say, and unless Grusch provides some names and documentation, then we will learn nothing new. And yes, you can say the same thing about the information that Don and I have, but there is a difference. It has not been shared over so much media, and we do name names and have some documentation.

We do need to wait until the hearings on Wednesday to see exactly what is said, but unless there are some surprises, this will be more hype without a payoff. Eventually, we all will become bored with the hype and ask for the substance. I suggest that given the research conducted into the Roswell case by Don, Tom Carey and me, we could eliminate some of that boredom. I hope for the best but fear the worse… But then, all this has happened before… The Deep State can and does hide the truth.

Patrick Saunders, Covert Roswell Whistleblower

 

I have said, repeatedly, that I will name names and provide documentation about what they have said. One of the most interesting of those who spoke about the Roswell crash was Patrick Saunders, and he provided information about both the recovery of an alien craft, with the bodies of the pilots, and about the threats made to those involved in the events of July 1947.

Patrick Saunders, the Roswell Army Air Field adjutant in July 1947, died in 1995, but not before leaving a legacy of information about his role in the retrieval and cover up. Had something happened in Roswell, no matter what it had been, as the adjutant and a member of Colonel William Blanchard’s primary staff, Saunders would have been in on it. And, according to the information I have, he was not only in on it, he played a major role in it by orchestrating a significant part of the cover up.

Saunders was born in Alabama in 1919 in Florida. He attended the University of Florida and graduated from the University of Nebraska at Omaha and the Air War College. During the Second World War he flew 37 combat missions and was awarded the Legion of Merit, the Silver Star, the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Bronze Star Medal with Oak Leaf Cluster, and the Air Medal with three Oak Leaf Clusters. Patrick Saunders died in November 1995, after a fall that put him into the hospital.

I first talked to Saunders on June 14, 1989, as I was beginning my research into the Roswell case. I have the notes taken during that conversation but there is no recording of it. There was nothing in that conversation that was contradicted later, other than his somewhat sarcastic remarks about the alien bodies.

He told me he had just gotten out of the hospital after a heart attack, which, had I known, I would have waited several weeks before calling him. That didn’t mean he wasn’t up to a telephone conversation and when I asked about the possibility of the UFO crash, he said that he knew nothing about the little green bodies and said that the whole thing was a big joke. He did confirm that he had been the 509th adjutant for only a few weeks when the events of July 1947 transpired.

On September 12, 1996, I received a letter from Evelyn P. Smith, who had known Saunders well. She wrote that while discussing these events with her, he said, “I never saw the little men. The creatures are in deep freeze at Wright-Pat.” Clearly, this was meant as something of a joke by Saunders. He would later contradict that statement in talking to his son, Tim Saunders.

During my 1989 telephone call, he said that there had been many rumors flying about the base at the time. I asked if he could remember any good rumors and which of those might have some truth to them. He said, simply, "I can't specify anything." Saunders, it seemed, was suggesting that he was not a witness to the story. Or rather, that was what he led me to believe at the time.

We did talk, briefly, about the events on the Brazel (Foster) ranch and he responded that he just couldn’t help. Not that it wasn’t true or that he didn’t know anything, just that he couldn’t help, which suggested there was another factor in play. He would explain that to one of his daughters in the mid-1990s.

But that wasn’t the end of it. I learned that later, after both UFO Crash at Roswell and The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell were published, he bought copies. In fact, he bought lots of copies to send to both close friends and family.  

A quotation, in his own handwriting, "Here's the truth and I still haven't told anybody anything! Pat," is on the flyleaf in The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell, which was labeled, "Damage Control." His comment is presumed to refer to that specific page but could refer to more of the information printed in the book.  It said:

Files were altered. So were personal records, along with assignments and various coding and code words. Changing serial numbers ensured that those searching later would not be able to locate those who were involved in the recovery. Individuals were brought into Roswell from Alamogordo, Albuquerque and Los Alamos. The MP s were a special unit constructed of military police elements from Kirtland, Alamogordo, and Roswell. If the men didn’t know one another, or were separated after the event, they would be unable to compare notes and that would make the secret easier to keep.

Saunder's note on the flyleaf to The Truth
about the UFO Crash at Roswell.

Tim Saunders, on July 13, 2023, confirmed that the writing, and the signature were those of his father. In a comparison with notes and signatures in Patrick Saunders personal flight logs, it was obvious that the same hand had written both those flight log notations and the inscription on the flyleaf.

Tim Saunders. Photo copyright by
Kevin Randle.

On the flyleaf to UFO Crash at Roswell, and sent on to his daughter, he wrote, "You were there! Love, Dad." It said:

TOP SECRET

Rickett, the senior counterintelligence man and the Provost Marshal walked the perimeter of the debris field examining the wreckage scattered there. Most of the pieces were small, no more than a few inches long and wide, but some measured a couple of feet on one side.

The came to one piece that was about two feet by two feet. According to Rickett, it was slightly curved. He locked it against his knew and tried to bend it or break it. The metal was very thin and very lightweight. Rickett couldn’t bend it at all. As they prepared to leave the crash site, the senior CIC agent turned to Rickett. "You and I were never out here," he said. "You and I never saw this. You don’t see any military people or military vehicles out here either."

"Yeah," Rickett agreed. We never even left the office."

Of course, it could be argued, and probably will be, that the messages are opened to interpretation. Here is a man who was at Roswell during the critical weeks suggesting, obliquely, that the information about the crash, retrieval and cover up is real. According to one letter I received from one of his children, Susan Saunders Simmons, her father had "At one point... bragged to me about how well he had covered the ‘paper trail’ associated with the clean up!"

Susan Saunder's letter about the Roswell UFO Crash.

And as happens all too often in this case, she wrote that they, Saunders’ children, were looking for his flight records. According to them, those records contained some relevant information but she didn’t tell me what, and it seems that the records provide no real clues about what had fallen near Corona.

In the months before he died, he confided in several close and lifelong friends that suddenly, the officers of the 509th Bomb Group were confronted with a technology greater than that of Earth. They, meaning the creatures in the flying saucers, had control of the sky. The Air Force was powerless against them. And they, the members of the Army Air Forces, had just seen the power of control of the sky. It was one of the factors that defeated the Axis Powers in the Second World War.

Saunders went on, telling people that military officials had no idea about what their, the pilots of the UFOs, intentions might be. Their technology was more advanced than that of the United States. Top military leaders didn't know if the alien beings were a threat so the government was reluctant to release anything about them.

He did warn those he talked with to be careful. He was aware of the threats that had been made and he believed that those making them were serious. Here was a retired Air Force officer who was warning his family to be careful about what they said and who they said it to. One of his daughters wrote, "...he asked me a lot of questions probably to see if, in fact, I had read [UFO Crash at Roswell] carefully. Then he wanted me to understand that he felt the threats to people who ‘talked’ were very real..."

Confirmation that Saunders talked about threats.

Tim Saunders reinforced this as well, telling me that his father was concerned about those threats. He suggested that his father sharing the information with the family could endanger them. He suggested his initial reluctance to talk about what he had seen in 1947.

So, once again, I’m confronted with information, from a reliable source, Patrick Saunders, through family members, that suggests that threats were made. The people who heard those threats believed them to be real, though I know of no instance when any of the threats were carried out.

I’ll note one other thing. When the Air Force was making their Roswell investigation, they did not interview Saunders, though they certainly had the chance. He wasn’t all that old, only 76, and while his heart might have been weakened, he certainly had the strength to sit through an interview with another Air Force officer.

There is another aspect to this as well. While Saunders did suggest that tales of little green men bogus, he provided a different take on it to family members. Tim Saunders told me that in the months prior to his father’s death, he did talk, briefly about alien bodies. According to Tim Saunders, his father said that there had been four bodies recovered and that he, Patrick Saunders, had seen them.

What's important here is that Saunders did not share this information with UFO researchers or outsiders at all. He kept it to himself, telling close friends and family only after the story had been told by so many others. It can't be said that he was seeking fame or fortune by creating a tale to put himself in the limelight. He told only his closest friends and family and cautioned them about revealing too much.

Saunders, when he prepared for his own funeral, added a note to his list of accomplishments, mentioning his role in Roswell. It was there beside the notes of his Air Force service, flying "the Hump" in the Chinese-Burmese-Indian Theater in the Second World War, and the list of the awards and decorations he acquired during his military service. Clearly the events in Roswell were important to him.

What we have now are several statements, written in his own hand, and shared with friends and family. Statements that suggest that Saunders was deeply involved in the Roswell events and they had nothing to do with a balloon, regardless of the mission of that balloon or who was claiming that it was a balloon.

The Reliability of UFO Witness Testimony

(Blogger’s Note: I normally don’t publish press releases but this is an important book. It provides research on the viability of witness testimony. We all should be aware that sometimes what a witness says is not accurate. Sometimes it is a matter of perception and sometimes that witness testimony has been contaminated by hearing others or seeing other narratives. Those interested in investigating UFOs should be aware of the problems with witness testimony. Take a look at the book.)

 

The Reliability of UFO Witness Testimony V.J. Ballester-Olmos & Richard W. Heiden (Eds.) For 76 years, casual observers around the world have reported sightings of aerial phenomena unexplainable to them. More elaborate personal experiences have been reported by others whose testimony speak of close interactions with fantastic flying machines that land, from which strange beings descend, and even kidnap the onlookers. In the absence of compelling physical evidence of the reality of these narrations, how should science study immaterial observations and test these claims? The very standard of reputable witness reliability is at stake here.

The Reliability of UFO Witness Testimony is the first major book to comprehensively focus on the discussion and current views on problems and challenges posed by the reliability of UFO testimonies.

 This is a cross-disciplinary compendium of papers by 60 authors from 14 different countries. They are specialists in social, physical, and biological sciences, including psychology (predominantly) as well as psychiatry, sociology, anthropology, history, philosophy, folklore, religion, journalism, engineering, computing, medicine, education, analysts with experience in the critical study of UFO perceivers, and other professionals. This volume shares thematically convergent ideas about the plausibility of alternate explanations for an alleged close-range UFO phenomenon.

The 57 chapters in this book are divided into seven section headings: Case Studies, Psychological Perspectives, On Witness Testimony, Empirical Research, Anthropological Approach, Metrics and Scaling, and Epistemological Issues. There, the subject matter is analyzed from statistical work to clinical assessment, psychometrics, comparative and evaluation inquiry, and other topic perspectives.

Some extracts from the Foreword, written by Dr. Leonard S. Newman, Professor of Psychology at Syracuse University:

The contributors to this book include some very smart people. There are all sorts of issues to which they could be devoting their intellectual energy, and all sorts of scholarly and research contributions they could make. They don’t have to write thoughtful and rigorous chapters for a book called The Reliability of UFO Witness Testimony, but this is what they have done. And so, the work continues, as attested to by the papers in this volume. I’m not sure if there exists any collection of papers on any topic that can claim to comprehensively summarize everything that is currently known about it. But this one comes pretty close.

This 711-page book has been released online in the Academia.edu portal, from where it can be downloaded for free at:

https://www.academia.edu/101922617/The_Reliability_of_UFO_Witness_Testimony

Simultaneously, UPIAR Publishing House (Turin, Italy) has published two softcover, A4 format print editions, one in black & white, another in full color (ISBN: 9791281441002).

To purchase the book, go through this link: http://www.upiar.com/index.cfm?artID=201 Four outstanding academics have provided praise notes to this volume.

They wrote: Elizabeth Loftus, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Irvine, USA When ordinary citizens claim to have extraterrestrial encounters, such as seeing UFOs or meeting with alien beings, what should we think? Did the alien abduction really happen or was it a hoax? Is someone deliberately lying? Are they false memories? Readers will be enthralled by the fascinating case histories that are presented in The Reliability of UFO Witness Testimony, a volume where sixty experts examine these issues with depth and insight. These cases teach us a great deal about how humans come to believe they have experienced bizarre events that may have never occurred at all.

Steven Jay Lynn, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor of Psychology, Binghamton University (SUNY), USA This captivating book will appeal to anyone interested in UFOs (and who isn’t?), the vagaries of memory, eyewitness perception and misperception, critical analysis of puzzling phenomena, and evaluating scientific vs. pseudoscientific claims. This volume ranks in the elite category of essential reading for students, scientists, and the seriously curious among us, and therefore has my highest recommendation. Bravo!

Henry Otgaar, Ph.D., Professor of Legal Psychology, Maastricht University, the Netherlands, and Leuven Catholic University, Belgium Claims of UFO sightings and experiences continue to fascinate us. This book has collected a unique and diverse set of case studies and critical articles on how such experiences unfold and what the authenticity of these claims is. The collection of these different articles is truly groundbreaking and is the first-ever complete assemblage concerning the validity of UFO testimony.

Benjamin E. Zeller, Ph.D., Professor and Chair of Religion, Lake Forest College, Illinois, USA In referring to extraterrestrial contact, Carl Sagan said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This fine book seeks to contextualize what such evidence entails. Its contributors analyze UFO sightings and cases both famous and obscure, recent and historical, and quite international in scope. They draw from an impressive range of methodological, academic, and scientific perspectives, and consider such topics as the nature of cognition, memory, types of belief and testimony, psychology, and the rationality of belief. Skeptics, believers, and scholars of ufology will all find this book fascinating!

For additional information please contact: UPIAR Publisher: info@upiar.com Editor: V.J. Ballester-Olmos, ballesterolmos@yahoo.e 

Whistleblowers, Crash Retrievals and Me

 

I have to tell you that I find all this hysteria and awe over the revelations of the alleged whistleblower and some of his compatriots in all this talk of UFO crash retrievals to be somewhat funny. I have watched videos of alleged reporters listening to the uncorroborated tales of spaceship crashes and the retrieval of the alien flight crew and exclaim they have chills up and down their spines because of what they are hearing. It is as if none of this has been said before.

So, what is the difference here?

These latest tales are supposedly wrapped in the cloak of whistleblower testimony to members of Congress. Of course, that’s not new either. There have been meetings between witnesses to the strange events and Congress in the past. Jesse Marcel, Jr., who actually handled bits of the debris recovered by his father on that ranch northwest of Roswell in 1947 was invited to the hill. Get that? It was not some guy who had heard stories, but the actual witness himself, telling these Congressional representatives what he had seen himself.

Don Schmitt and I talked with Jesse Marcel, Jr. on several cases. We heard him describe the material that he had handled. We heard about the strange symbols he had seen on some of it. And we heard about the strength of some of that debris.

We talked with Bill Brazel, the son of the man who reported the crash to the authorities in Roswell. He told us of material that mimicked fiber optics long before fiber optics existed. He talked of material that was as light as balsa and that he couldn’t even get a sliver with a pocket knife that he was to cut barbed wire. And he told us of a foil that, when wadded into a ball, it would return to its original shape.

Bill Brazel, who handled some of the
metallic debris.

Get it? We were talking with the people who handled the material and we were naming names. And, we have it all on audio, and in some cases, videotape. And we have affidavits signed by those witnesses attesting to the validity of what they said.

As for the tales of alien flight crew recovered, one of the new crop of journalists, or story tellers, said that in his reporting he had left out some of that information because it was too sensational. Thirty years ago, Don Schmitt and I not only reported on the retrieval of the alien flight crews, we named names. We had testimony from officers who had served with the 509^th Bomb Group in Roswell talk of alien bodies.

Of course, Jesse Marcel, Sr., the air intelligence officer of the 509^th, was the first to talk of the retrieval. He started the ball rolling. I talked with the base Provost Marshal, Edwin Easley, who retired as a colonel, who told me that he had been sworn to secrecy about what had happened. But who also told me when I asked if we were following the right path, meaning we thought it was extraterrestrial, he said, “Well, it’s not the wrong path.”

Major Jesse Marcel, Sr.

Both Don Schmitt and I talked to Brigadier Arthur Exon, one time the base commander at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He confirmed for us that it was the crash of an alien craft and that bodies were recovered. Although he had not seen the bodies himself, those he knew and trusted at Wright Patterson said there had been bodies. Here was an Air Force brigadier general confirming the Roswell crash… And did I mention that he had flown over the two crash sites, which, of course was first hand testimony.

Brigadier General Arthur Exon

And for those who believe that a weather balloon and rawin radar reflector was the cause all the hoopla in Roswell, Colonel Thomas DuBose (later brigadier general) told us that the material in the pictures was not the material recovered at Roswell. He was there, in Fort Worth, when the pictures were taken, and was even on one of them.

Colonel Thomas DuBose with BG Raney
with the weather balloon.

Let’s not forget the story told by the late Senator Barry Goldwater, a brigadier general in the Reserve. He had asked his pal, General Curtis LeMay about the so-called Blue Room at Wright-Patterson AFB. This was an area that was claimed to house alien artifacts, and maybe even alien bodies. LeMay’s response wasn’t to laugh at Goldwater, but to deny him permission to enter and that if he ever asked again, he, Goldwater would be court martialed. I don’t how LeMay would have done that because the publicity would reveal the secret. Goldwater confirmed the story on several occasions.

Of course, I can go on. I spoke to a brigadier general, in the Pentagon. Yes, he was in the Pentagon and so were Don Schmitt and me. Of course, we weren’t very deep inside the building and the discussion didn’t last very long, but he did tell us that he couldn’t get at the Roswell files but did confirm they exist. How is this information any different that the uncorroborated tales told by the new whistleblowers?

As an Air Force intelligence officer, and later as an Army intelligence officer, those who knew me, knew of my interest in UFOs. They would tell me things that they heard. One of the wildest stories, one that I just didn’t report on because, like what we have today, I can’t validate it. I know of no reason the man would invent the tale and he told me merely because he believed I wouldn’t ridicule his story.

Although he wouldn’t give me a location or an exact date, he said that he had been on TDY because he held an undergraduate degree in biology, and while there were other officers who had the same training, they simply didn’t have the same level of security clearances and sometimes that is the limiting factor. There were other officers with better training but they couldn’t get the necessary clearances in the necessary time frame.

He had been flown to the famous undisclosed location, had gone through a rigorous decontamination process to ensure that he wouldn’t be carrying any, and he used the term, human genetic material, into the clean room. He was suited up, and while guards stood outside, he entered that sterile environment. He had thirty minutes to examine the specimen. Again, that was his word.

The being was humanoid, but clearly not human. He didn’t supply much in the way of a description. Ironically, he did say that the skin had a greenish tint. The being wasn’t exactly green and my source wasn’t sure if the color was the result of decomposition or the attempts to preserve the unique biological sample, which, given this was the military he called a UBS.

He couldn’t tell much about it and realized that he was out of his depth. True, he had the degree in biology, again, this was a unique sample. His examination was superficial. He said that the head was light-bulb shaped, the eyes were small and he wondered if they came from a world with bright sunlight. The being was five to five-five. The hands contained six fingers that were long and thin and looked almost like tiny tentacles.

At that point, I think he realized that he was telling me more than he should have. He grinned and just asked, “What do you think?”

I had heard several similar stories, meaning tales of alien bodies including one in which the man, a retired officer, told me about meeting with a living alien creature. I’m not sure if they creature had been found near Roswell or was from some other event. He also mentioned that he had been sent to Roswell in the very early 1950s to go through the records at the base to remove and destroy any that hinted of the unusual events of July 1947.

There isn’t a lot of consistency in these sorts of tales. I just stuffed them and search for some sort of confirmation, which, of course, I have not found. Just a tales told as we discussed lots of other things. Just stories dropped into conversation every now and then.

So, what do you do with all this? Well, I forgot about it until we started to hear more about whistleblowers and tales of alien crash retrievals and dead alien pilots they tell today. There is no real substance to these stories. They are just tales told by one officer to another or hinted at in other discussions. In that first case, both of us had, at the time, top-secret clearances and even though I am interested in UFOs, there was a hint that the story shouldn’t be repeated.

And that’s where we are today. A couple of guys, identified as whistleblowers, hinting at such stories, as if this is something new. They provide nothing to be checked but promise more. At least Don Schmitt, Tom Carey and I, when reporting these tales, provide names, dates, locations and often have taped backup, which can be supplied to prove that we aren’t inventing the tales.

So, if you wish to read about crash retrievals, (a term created by the late Len Stringfield decades ago), take a look at what we have learned, from some highly placed sources who we identify… and if you wonder why the Air Force, during their investigation in 1995 ignored some of the information and recordings supplied by named, high-ranking officers that we offered to them, I believe the answer is obvious. The Air Force didn’t want to call retired, high-ranking officers liars.