Friday, April 16, 2021

X-Zone Broadcast Network - John Greenewald vs Tony Bragalia


This week we had a special edition of A Different Perspective with guests Tony Bragalia and John Greenewald. The idea to discuss Tony’s claim that the Pentagon had confirmed they were in possession of alien debris and that they were conducting reverse engineering on it. We began with Tony describing what he had discovered through his FOIA campaign directed at various government agencies. You can listen to the first part of the program here.

John did present his side of this conversation as well, explaining, again how the FOIA worked and that sometimes the material sent was not necessarily what had been requested. He was of the opinion that what was addressed in the email didn’t necessarily relate to the specific request. The FOIA officers attempted to fulfill the request in compliance with the law.

John Greenewald
Tony mentioned a connection between his investigation into Nitinol metal and Titanium. He mentioned that General Exon had talked about the ultra-high purity of Titanium. I said that I didn’t remember General Exon saying anything about Titanium in my interviews with him and I asked for the citation. Tony didn’t have it at his figure tips but promised to send it to me later.

You can listen to the exchange on the first part of the program. It begins at 24:32 minutes in the show. Tony said, “…he told you, on tape, that he understood that some of the [Roswell] wreckage being tested was comprised in part by special processed Titanium, so we begin to examine specially processed Titanium in these documents…”

I said, “I do not remember Exon saying anything about the Titanium.”

Tony said, “It’s in your book and I will cite and send it to you…It’s in your books… you certainly did talk about Titanium and Arthur Exon and his mention of specially processed Titanium.”

Tony did send a citation. The reference came from my book Roswell UFO Crash Update and Tom Carey and Don Schmitt’s Witness to Roswell. The information originated in Don’s interview with Exon in June 1990. It said:

I don’t know, at that time, if it was Titanium or some other metal… or if it was something they knew about and the processing was something different.

Tony has taken that single, rather unimportant reference to Titanium as the possible metal recovered and turned it into a positive identification of the metal from Roswell being Titanium. So, in one way, Tony was right. Exon did mention Titanium but in the long haul, it is not as important as Tony has made it out to be. It wasn’t a positive identification of Titanium, and there was no mention of any sort of processing related to the Titanium. Exon did talk about special handling of the debris but it wasn’t necessarily related to Titanium as Tony suggested.

Arthur Exon. Photo by
Tom Carey.

Lewis Rickett, who had been the NCOIC of the Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) office in Roswell, handled some of the debris and said it reminded him of Cold Rolled Steel. He also pointed out that it was very light weight and very strong. I mention this only to point out that those who actually handed the metal had different opinions of it. General Exon never handled the debris, a point that Tony has overlooked. This sort of thing will become important in the second hour of the show.

It was in the second hour that things became somewhat acrimonious. You can listen to that portion of the show here:

I brought up the problem with Tony’s analysis of the Dr. Herbert Dick interviews that dealt with the situation on the Plains of San Agustin in July 1947. You can read about that in detail in the following posting. I believed it had some relevance in the way Tony had described the situation and as the one who actually interviewed Dr. Dick, I believed that I had a better handle on it. The discussion related to Tony’s misunderstanding of what Dr. Dick had said and his, Tony’s, somewhat over the top description of what he believed had happened.

It was here, as I was attempting to explain the significance of Tony’s analysis of Dr. Dick’s statements that Tony kept interrupting me. I told him he would understand if he would just let me finish. Finally, annoyed with his constant interruptions, I told him to “Shut up.” Not exactly the most professional way to handle this, but I had sent him what I thought of as the rules for this discussion. One of them those rules was not to interrupt because I would provide an opportunity to respond later. He just hung up.

In our email exchange that followed, I provided additional information about Dr. Dick and my interview with him. Dr. Dick told me that he arrived on the Plains in July 1947. He didn’t think it was in the first week, which was the critical time. Later, Art Campbell found documents that put him on the Plains on July 1. Tony had written that Dr. Dick had categorically denied he had been there in July and Campbell’s discovery proved that he had. Of course, Dick never denied he had been there, only that he wasn’t there at the very beginning of the month.

Tony later wrote in an email that he had been right about Dr. Dick and that I knew it. I was the one who talked to Dr. Dick, I knew what he had said, and there was never any question about him being on the Plains in July 1947. The question was about when he arrived. Putting him there on July 1, was a blow to those who accepted the Plains San Agustin crash.

Don Schmitt on the Plains of San Agustin. Photo by Kevin Randle.

With Tony gone, John and I completed the show. In the last segment of the show, I mentioned that John had just written about a Pentagon release of more video. We discussed the implications there, along with what it meant to the UFO report due to Congress in July, and the possibility that some of these sightings were drones.

We also, briefly, touched on the Roswell Slides. Tony had been a vocal advocate of the validity of the slides. Once the slides were available to the public, the image on the slides was quickly identified. It is just another example of Tony’s advocacy for a position that isn’t as solid as it could be.

Next week is the second part of the show, which is available now through the embedded audio player or by using the links above.

Wednesday, April 14, 2021

Did Herbert Dick Lie about Being on the Plains of San Agustin?


A fellow identifying himself as Lemurian is often commenting here but most of those comments don’t see the light of day. That’s because they’re just nasty and often appended to the wrong posting. It’s as if he just clicks on one and then writes whatever moves him regardless of the topic. I delete them because they are nasty and inappropriate. Recently, however, he did provide a comment that wasn’t nasty, only inappropriate. He suggested that we all access a website that contained information about the Barney Barnett aspect of the Roswell case. You can access that story here:

While the story is interesting, it is also somewhat misleading, and it is filled with misinformation. Please note here that I said “Misinformation,” rather than “Disinformation.” There is a difference.

Rather than go through this one segment at a time, I’ll just make a few general comments. First, there are no other first-hand witnesses to the Barnett tale. The archaeologists have never been found and the Gerald Anderson story, sometimes used to bolster the case, is a hoax. Anderson is little more than a footnote in the overall picture. He destroyed his own credibility by lying about his Naval career and forging a number of documents. For those interested you can read about it here (You’ll need to scroll down a bit to find the relevant segment:

I spoke with Fleck Danley, who was instrumental in providing a date for the Plains of San Agustin crash that Barnett had discussed. It was clear to me, that Danley had no real idea of when the alleged discussion with Barnett took place. Danley was pushed into agreeing with the July 1947 date by Bill Moore so that there would be a tale of alien bodies for his book, The Roswell Incident. Without Barnett, they had only stories of strange metal and the Army’s efforts to recover the debris and change the narrative.

Barnett’s wife, Ruth, kept a diary for 1947. It was, apparently, the only year in which she did that. I was able to obtain the diary from Alice Knight, Barnett’s niece, so that we might copy it. There is no mention of any event on the Plains that suggest Barnett was involved in anything unusual or strange. In fact, the only date in the diary that works, meaning that Barnett was out of his office and over in the area of the Plains to see the crashed saucer is on July 2, 1947. If we follow the conventional wisdom, that is a day too early because the Roswell crash took place later.

Although the counterargument is that Barnett wouldn’t have shared this startling information with his wife so we wouldn’t read about in the diary, there are no indications of anything unusual happening at the time. Barney didn’t come home upset, didn’t suggest anything out of the ordinary. Just that he’d been out of the office that day. Later, however, we see that Barnett told many people the story of crash including friends and family. You can read about this aspect of the case in Roswell in the 21st Century. I will note here that no one has ever found a document in which any of that was discussed. You would think that someone would have written something that would provide a little corroboration in the proper time frame. Instead, all we have are memories that were decades old when they were finally discussed and Barnett had been dead for those decades.

There is one interesting point here. Although nearly everyone who discusses the story places it on the Plains of San Agustin, in reality, according to Jean Maltais, Barnett’s description was somewhat vague about the location. She only mentioned “the flats,” which could mean any number of places in New Mexico. Most ignore this minor glitch in the tale to focus on the Plains.

But let’s get to the meat of this claim. Tony Bragalia wrote about Dr. Herbert Dick, “While considering various archaeologists, researchers uncovered Harvard-trained Dr Herbert Dick. Dick was a noted archaeologist who passed away in 1992. Some years before his death however, he was located and questioned. Dick categorically denied that he had ever worked around the Plains of San Augustin region in July of 1947 (highlight added). Dick had told researchers he had not been there, telling one of them, "If I knew anything I would have told you." One of his dig party, Jeff Morris, also denied it. These denials were reported in early 1990's issues of the publication IUR – International UFO Reporter and elsewhere.”

Much of this is inaccurate. I did talk to Herbert Dick about this and rather than “categorically [denying] that he had ever worked about the Plains of San Augustin (sic),” the truth is that he wasn’t sure exactly when he arrived there in July 1947. What he denied was that he had seen any sort of a UFO crash retrieval operation on the Plains. This was not reported in the IUR as claimed.

Dick told me (not one of them) that if he knew anything about this, he’d tell me. What is important here that another member of his team denied that “it,” meaning, here, I suppose, that they had seen nothing suggesting a flying saucer crash. This was not reported in the IUR.

Although Bragalia wrote, “It turns out though that Dick had lied [highlight added] to these researchers when he was interviewed by them. In 2006 a revealing letter was uncovered by researcher Art Campbell. Campbell has been active in the UFO field for decades, including with NICAP. He is the author of "UFO Crash at San Augustin" and maintains the UFO Crash Book website. The documents that he discovered confirm that Dick had not told the truth. Dick was in fact at the Plains at the very time that he said that he was not.” As we have seen, Dick had told me he was on the Plains in July 1947, he just wasn’t sure exactly when he arrived.

Bragalia went even further, when he wrote, “A thorough search of records finds that no other group of archaeologists were working on the Plains in early July of 1947 except Herbert Dick and party – and Dick lied that [highlight added] he was even there. Lies are used [highlight added] to cover up the truth by those who wish to evade it. To have ever spoken of the event, Dick may have felt that he could have risked a security breach, his own professional advancement, future professional credibility, award of grant monies or – later in life – damage to his impressive professional legacy.”

But Dick didn’t lie. In an interview I conducted on June 23, 1991, Dick told me that he had worked in the area called Bat Cave on the southeastern edge of the Plains in 1947. He just wasn’t sure exactly when he arrived. The letters and notes found by Art Campbell, showed that he had arrived in time to have seen the crash, had it taken place on July 2, and would have been in a position to see the recovery operation in the days that followed, had there been one.

Don Schmitt at one of the alleged Plains of San Agustin crash sites. The Bat Cave
is across the Plains in the mountains seen behind Don.

I provided this information to Stan Friedman, telling him that Dick had been at the Bat Cave on July 1. Friedman’s response? He said we didn’t know how far back in the cave they were working and we didn’t know which way the cave faced. I told him that it faced to the west and that they wouldn’t be very deep because they were researching human habitation. Humans would have been very close to the mouth of the cave because to move in deeper would have put them in darkness. Besides, according to the information, the only level spot for camping was about a hundred yards from the mouth of the cave. They had a panoramic view of the whole of the Plains and the alleged crash site in the days prior to that alleged crash and of the recovery operation had there been one.

The point is that Bragalia’s speculations about Dick are not borne out in the interview I conducted with the man. According to Bragalia himself, he was using information provided by Campbell and the source mentioned, the International UFO Reporter, does not contain this information. Instead, it comes from Art Campbell’s analysis of the situation which is highly speculative. Campbell mentioned a paper found in The Magdalena Fact Book. This was a document that I created for the single meeting in Chicago to discuss the problems with the Plains of San Agustin tale. The book was created for the meeting, there were only five copies and I have one of them. I’m surprised that Campbell had seen a copy of it and can only guess that it was Friedman who showed it to him.

The real point here is that the information about Dick’s involvement, that he lied repeatedly about what he was doing and where he was, is inaccurate. Dick wasn’t confused. He had forgotten the exact date he arrived. He was quite candid in his conversation with me about where he was and what he was doing. What Dick’s statements do, corroborated by the documentation from by Campbell, is destroy the remaining threads of the Gerald Anderson claims of what he had seen on the Plains, and calls into question that Barnett saw anything there in the summer of 1947.

Dick denied the involvement because there was no involvement. I can say this with confidence because I talked to the man. I don’t have to rely on what others have said or written. I have the first-hand source, that trumps all the second and third-hand reports and all the speculation that permeates Bragalia’s article.

Bragalia’s analysis here is more of the same sort of over-the-top rhetoric we’ve seen before. He has taken some poorly researched information and created a scenario in his mind that fits into his theory. He writes in a fashion that suggests he knows what is going on, but a careful reading and an examination of all the facts, including my interview with Dick, show the flaws in his theory. He even cites a source that doesn’t exist.

One more thing for those of you of a conspiratorial mindset. According to Dick, he knew Winfred Buskirk (Anderson’s archaeologist on the Plains) in the 1940s. Since both were working on their PhDs at the time, and both were in New Mexico (well, Buskirk was working in Arizona in the summer of 1947, he lived in Albuquerque), it is not surprising. I just thought I’d mention it to stir the pot and before someone creates another whole scenario about government secrecy and lying anthropologists.

Thursday, April 08, 2021

Coast-to-Coast AM: Travis Walton and Mike Rogers

A few days ago, I stumbled across a number of blog postings about the Travis Walton abduction, suggesting that there was now a problem between Walton and Mike Rogers. The suggestion, or the interpretation of some of those remarks, suggested that Rogers was repudiating the abduction and had stopped just short of calling it a hoax.

Travis Walton.

Now, those who know me and have read my work in the UFO field know that I’m not a fan of abduction tales. I understand the logistical problems with interstellar flight and that the vast distances, not to mention the current thinking that the speed of light is the limiting factor, suggest that travel among the stars is something that would take years, if not decades and centuries. I get that our current knowledge is subject to revision as our understanding of the universe increases, but that doesn’t change the fact that interstellar flight is, basically, impossible for us under today’s laws of physics.

That doesn’t mean that a civilization that is a hundred years, two years or a thousand years more advanced than our own hasn’t figured out a way to do it. That means, to my way of thinking that alien visitation, and by extension, alien abduction is possible. I believe that many cases of alien abduction have terrestrial explanations.

There are two distinct factors are work here. One is sleep paralysis, which is a period just prior to going to sleep or just after waking when the individual cannot move. It is a frightening experience for those who have never suffered an episode of sleep paralysis. In about 80% of the cases, there is also the feeling that there is something, some entity or creature in the room as well.

There are several cases in which sleep paralysis, when fully explored offers an explanation for the abduction case. You can read about this, at length, in The Abduction Enigma.

The second problem, often related to sleep paralysis, is the use of hypnosis to gather the data. By reading the transcripts of some of the sessions, you can see where the operator, that is the hypnotist, is unconsciously leading the subject into the arena of alien abduction. Again, The Abduction Enigma covers that. You can also read more about it here:

I believe that the most likely scenarios are those of what I think of as targets of opportunity such as the Barney and Betty Hill, the Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, the Terry Lovelace case, and, of course, the Walton abduction. I believe these are more likely alien abduction than many of the other cases. You can listen to my interviews with Calvin Parker and with Terry Lovelace here (or just scroll through the listings on the embedded audio player on the left to find those interviews):

Having read about the fallout between Travis Walton and Mike Rogers that seemed to suggest something new was coming. As I said, it seemed that Rogers was close to repudiating Walton.

I know each man having met each of them on several occasions. I reached out to Mike Rogers asking about all this. It seemed to me that he was suggesting that the fallout was a personal matter that seemed to relate to the abduction only tangentially. He wasn’t repudiating it by saying he was done with Travis Walton, only that his association with Walton was terminated. That seemed to clarify the matter.

But then he sent an email that reminded me that no one had actually seen Walton being abducted. When the men in the pick-up truck spotted the UFO near where they had been working, rogers, who was driving, stopped. They were all in a state of shock by the brightly glowing UFO that was not all that far from them. Travis, fascinated by the craft, got out of the truck and begin walking toward it. As he got near, a bright beam of light shot out, striking him. He was thrown back, landing on the ground some distance away.

The others, still in the truck and in an even more agitated state, didn’t check on their friend. They screamed at Rogers to get them out of there. Rogers turned around and sped away. I actually mentioned to Rogers once that I found that a little bit chicken… but, of course they did return. This is the reason, that in the beginning, law enforcement thought they might have murdered Walton.

We know, of course, that wasn’t true. Walton reappeared some five days later, calling friends to come and get him. According to what Rogers told me some time ago Walton only remembered about fifteen minutes of his time on the ship. Rogers worked out the details based on what he was told.

What I learned in my communications with both men, was that all this had to do with personal matters. It had nothing to do with the UFO sighting and those events. Rogers wasn’t about to claim the whole thing was a hoax. He was annoyed with Travis and it seemed that Travis was annoyed with him.

I told both that I was going to report on this and that, having my questions answered, I was going to bow out of the conversation. This really was none of my business and it was not the business of those in the UFO community. The suggestion of some sort of repudiation of the abduction and by extension, the UFO sighting was not on the table.

On Monday I learned that they have, apparently, worked out their differences. For those interested, I have more information on my blog about the sighting and even an interview with one of the other men in the truck, Steve Pierce. It should supply a complete picture and wrap up this latest episode. 

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Bill Konkolesky

This week I changed things slightly and invited Bill Konkolesky on the program to talk about his abduction experiences. About the first thing I learned was that he doesn’t like the term abduction because it implies he was a victim. Instead, he prefers the term “experiencer,” because these were, well, experiences. You can listen here (or use the embedded audio player at the left):

We did discuss some of the terrestrial explanations for alien abduction. Sleep paralysis was one of those topics, of course. Those who experience sleep paralysis

Bill Konkolesky with Budd Hopkins

often describe an event that is remarkably similar to alien abduction. I did mention that protocols to separate sleep paralysis from alien abduction had been talked about but that no such protocols have been established.

We did talk about the vast distances between stars and that the speed of light, as we understand physics today, is the limiting factor. While it is certainly possible that in the future, we might discover a way of defeating that problem, as of today, we simply can’t do it. This did lead into a discussion of ancient astronauts and ancient aliens, but that conversation didn’t reveal very much.

One of the things that interested me was some sort of corroboration. Bill gave three examples of that. He told of a childhood friend who had witnessed part of an interaction when a fog crept into the backyard where they were playing. The friend, however, didn’t see the gray alien wrapped in the fog.

In the second event, Bill and friends witnessed a display of lights but again, while that would provide corroboration for the sighting, it does nothing for the claim of abduction.

In the third event, he was on a date when they were approached by what might have been an alien. Unfortunately, he is no longer in contact with the woman and frankly, I have no desire to bother her, given her strong reaction to the event.

This led to the question of attempting to record any of these events, but he hadn’t done anything like that. I thought if the abductions were happening periodically, there might be a chance for a recording. Bill did mention that when MUFON has attempted something like that it has always failed for some reason. I find that somewhat suspicious, but that’s an argument for another time.

I asked why he thought he had been singled out and he suggested that it was a family thing. He said that others in the family had reported some strange activity. He was reluctant to supply names and I didn’t push him on the subject.

Next week will begin a two-part show with both Tony Bragalia and John Greenewald to discuss Tony’s claim that the Pentagon had admitted to possession of alien materials. If you have questions about this, put them in the comments section and I’ll try to get them asked. 

Thursday, April 01, 2021

Carl Hart, Jr., The Lubbock Lights Photographer has Died


John Steiger alerted me to this and it is something that I should have noted last year. Carl Hart, Jr., the teenager who took the iconic Lubbock Lights pictures, died on September 24, 2020, in Lubbock.

He was born in Lubbock, attended the Lubbock High School and graduated from Texas Tech University. He was a first-generation Eagle Scout and had a passion for scouting during his life.

Carl Hart in 1951.

In September, 1951, Hart, who was interested in photography, was lying in bed when he saw a group of lights flash overhead. He knew, based on the newspaper accounts, that the lights sometimes returned. When they did, he was ready, photographing two flights. He originally took five pictures but one has been lost.

His pictures have been the subject of controversy since they were published. He was interviewed by Ed Ruppelt, then the chief of the Air Force UFO investigation. And he was maligned by Donald Menzel for perpetrating a hoax.

Hart maintained that he didn’t know what he photographed. On the bad advice of friends, he was told not to copyright the pictures because it would make it seem that he had faked them. Those pictures have been published around the world.

In the mid-1990s, while I was in Lubbock on another investigation, on a lark, I looked up his telephone number. I was surprised that he was still in Lubbock and surprised when he answered the telephone. We had a nice chat about the pictures. He told me that his house was gone, replaced by a Pizza Hut. At the end of the conversation, I asked him what he had photographed. He said that he still didn’t know. I might have been the last UFO researcher to interview him.

Other than this single brush with fame, Hart lived a quiet life in Lubbock. He was 87 years old.

Wednesday, March 31, 2021

Did Mike Rogers Repudiate the Travis Walton Abduction?


There has been a bit of a controversy lately. Travis Walton and Mike Rogers are at odds with one another and some have interpreted this to mean that Rogers no longer supports the story of Walton’s abduction. I read a number of posts about it and they were confusing. It was unclear if Rogers was saying, finally, that the abduction was a hoax, or maybe something less exciting. His words were that he no longer supported Travis Walton.

Travis Walton

I know Rogers to some extent. We have communicated over the last couple of years. I did meet him once, in 1997, in Roswell. Nothing long and involved. He and Walton were finishing a presentation and the next person up was Russ Estes. I was there with Estes and we all just said, “Hello.” Walton and Rogers left before Estes took the microphone and began to speak.

I have had Rogers on my radio show and you can listen to that interview by scrolling through the listings on the embedded audio player. Just look for Mike Rogers. I believe there is a problem with one segment in the first or second hour of the interview that we failed to get fixed. You can read about it here:

Anyway, I emailed Rogers about all this. I thought I understood the situation. It seemed that Walton and Rogers had a falling out over a personal matter. It was strong enough that Rogers wasn’t going to support Walton, which I took to mean that he wasn’t going to be with him on any interviews or at any presentations. It wasn’t that Rogers was repudiating the abduction tale. He was severing his connection to Walton over this personal matter.

However, during the email exchange, Rogers sent the following, “You must realize that none of us witnesses saw Travis get abducted.  That in itself speaks volumes. The further this goes the more I wonder.” The emphasis is in the original. He added, “You can quote me on that.”

Yes, we can say that they all passed polygraph tests, or rather most of them did. But those first tests were about the Rogers’ team having murdered Walton and not about the abduction. Walton failed his first polygraph but subsequently passed two others. Walton has said that the first test was flawed because the polygrapher didn’t believe in UFOs and thought the whole thing was a hoax. The alleged test wasn’t a properly conducted test. Walton has a point here. You can, of course, read all about that in Walton’s Fire in the Sky.

Steve Pierce Photo copyright by Randle

I did talk with Steve Pierce several years ago about this, and the story that he and Philip Klass had talked about Pierce recanting. Klass would pay ten thousand dollars for that. I covered all this years ago and you can read about that here:

I will note here that none of those who were involved in the sighting and the subsequent events that night has ever said that it was a hoax. All have remained a solid front about the case. The statement by Rogers to me just hours ago is the first crack in the wall. You have to wonder about the line, “You must realize that none of us witnesses saw Travis get abducted.” Is there a deeper meaning hidden there?

When I began this minor quest, I had hoped clarify the situation but I now fear that I have muddied the water even more. I’m not sure what to make of all this?

And, I have reached out to Walton although he hasn’t answered an email from me in a couple of years. I had invited him on the radio show but his last comment was, “What’s the point?” I have not heard back from him, but then, I didn’t send the email all that long ago. If there is a reply, I’ll post it too.

Calvin Parker is Seriously Ill

 I have received word that Calvin Parker, one half of the Hickson-Parker abduction story has some serious health issues. Philip Mantle, who published Calvin’s books wrote, “My friend and colleague Calvin Parker in the USA hasn’t been well for a year or two now. After a number of medical tests his doctors have decided that he has to undergo surgery, possibly next week. I’ll not go into specifics but will say that he has a very serious medical problem the cost and the cost of constant hospital visits, tests and now an operation is simply beyond his means.

Calvin Parker
As those of you who visit here often know, I’m not a fan of alien abduction stories. I believe there are terrestrial explanations for most of them running from poor interview technique, to psychological issues to outright hoaxes. There are few cases that I find intriguing and that don’t seem to fit that pattern. These are usually single events that take place outside in what I would consider targets of opportunity. The Hickson-Parker abduction fits into that pattern. Two guys, outside, when the abduction took place.

I met Charles Hickson many years ago at a UFO convention. His story was virtually the same as always with little in the way of corroborative detail. The big plus was that the local sheriff, after the abduction, left Hickson and Parker alone in an interrogation room with a recorder running. They said nothing to one another that would suggest hoax.

It was only in recent years that Calvin told his side of the story. I interviewed him twice for the radio version of A Different Perspective. I really didn’t detect anything that would suggest hoax. I just don’t believe that he is sophisticated enough to construct an elaborate hoax. Maybe a better way to say it is that there seemed to be no motive for it and his wasn’t the sort of character that would agree to do something like that.

You can listen to the two interviews I did with him by scrolling through the interview lists on the audio player to the left. You can decide for yourself. But I will note that others have been located that saw something strange that night and have been interviewed about those experiences. They tend to corroborate the story being told by Calvin today.

For those interested in supplying some financial assistance to Calvin, there is a Go Fund Me page. You can access the page here:

Normally I wouldn’t do anything like this, but then Calvin was kind enough to appear on the radio version of the blog twice and share his tales. Too often, those of us who do these sorts of interviews seem to forget about the guests when the show ends. I just thought Calvin deserved a little help with what will probably be monstrous medical bills.

Philip said that he would keep us all apprised of the outcome of the necessary surgery and I’ll post information here. Given that, I thought it only fair to repay his kindness with a note about his health and his needs. Help if you can and if you want to

Saturday, March 27, 2021

Memories That Seem Real


I have suggested for years that memory is unreliable and I have cited a study done by Ulric Neisser after the Challenger disaster. He provided his first-year students with a short survey asking them about how they heard about the disaster, where they were and the like. Three years later, he provided those same students, now seniors, with the same six questions. He added a seventh about how accurate they thought their memories were.

He found that nearly 75% of those were wrong about some of what they remembered. Nearly a quarter of them were completely wrong. Once of the students, when confronted by that information, said that she was sorry, but it was how she remembered it.

Why bring this up here and now?

I have been posting to a blog ( my experiences as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. At the top of the blog, I note that these are the relative true stories of my year there. I said relative true because I’m aware of the foibles of memory and how it can fool us.

One of those stories was called “The Real, True Story of My Thanksgiving Dinner.” I had said for literally decades, that I had left the dinner on a tray in the serving line as the flight crews were scrambled. I won’t go into all the details but if you wish to read that story, you can find it here:

And now for the rest of the story as the late Paul Harvey would say. I have all the letters that I wrote home more than fifty years ago. I hadn’t looked at them and hadn’t really cared to read them in all those years. But, for the blog, which, frankly, I created to help promote the Vietnam Ground Zero books I had written with Robert Charles Cornett in the 1980s, and to satisfy some of my friends and colleagues who were interested in what I had experienced, I pulled those letters out.

I will note here that, more than once, the flight crews were scrambled in the middle of a meal, often to either reinforce or extract a unit that had gotten into some kind of trouble. But, as you’ll read, it didn’t happen on Thanksgiving. One of the letters explained exactly where we were. We were not at Cu Chi but actually had been deployed to Tay Ninh for some sort of mission. We were told that the Thanksgiving meal would be provided there. Apparently, it wasn’t very good.

The Hornet Company area, circa February, 1969. Photo by Kevin Randle.

I have no memory of this. I must bow, of course, to the letter I had written a few days after that experience. I have to say that a document written at the time is surely more accurate than my fifty-year-old memories. This would be my fifty-year experiment in the reliability of memory. I offer this as a cautionary tale as we attempt to unravel mysteries that are decades old. Documentation created at the time is certainly better than memories related long after the fact.

There is one more caveat to be offered here. As I work through those letters and tell the stories that happened in Vietnam, I can verify some of the memories as correct, from the story of “Smokey” to that of Tet 1969 (I used, as an aid, an article I had written decades ago when those memories were fresher, but what I remembered now was reinforced by that article).

The point is simply this. Memory isn’t always reliable. We must search for additional corroboration but we much not reject the memory because it happens to be old.

Thursday, March 25, 2021

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Lawrence Spencer Polygraph Challenge


For those who listened to the interview with Lawrence Spencer on March 24, you heard me ask if he would take a polygraph test. This would help us understand the situation about the claim that he had received the information for his book from a nurse who had been stationed in Roswell in 1947.

His response was, “Absolutely.”

Given that, the following was sent to him on March 24:

Dear Mr. Spencer:

I have been asked to arrange a polygraph exam to be conducted on you in direct reference to the statements and comments that you made during your radio interview with Kevin Randle, earlier this afternoon – Wednesday, March 24, 2021 between 2:45 – 3:55 pm Eastern.

In order to proceed with the exam, which will focus on your self-published book, “Top Secret – Alien Interview” and statements made there in, we need to confirm that you agree to have this polygraph exam administered to you, and:

- You will not receive any money for having the polygraph exam given to you;

- You agree that REL-MAR McConnell Media Company will have the full and the exclusive access to the administration of, and the results of the said polygraph test, including video and audio recording and that REL-MAR will own the rights to the said polygraph exam;

- A formal release will be sent to you upon the agreement to this email.

Please let me know which state and city you reside in in order to secure the appropriate polygraph examiner who services the area where you reside.

I look forward to your reply.

Rob McConnell,

President & CEO,

REL-MAR McConnell Media Company


To be fair, in my communication with Spencer, there was always a delay in his response, meaning, of course, that he doesn’t send a response quickly. It could be a day or more before we hear anything from him. I will, of course, provide updates as I have them.

X-Zone Broadcast - Lawrence Spencer and the Nonexistent Nurse


Lawrence R. Spencer was the guest on the program this week. As noted in an earlier post, he claimed that a “Roswell nurse” had sent him a package of documents about the UFO crash and her telepathic communications with the alien survivor. You can read that earlier post here:

Lawrence Spencer

Although he had said he would send a copy of his book to me, I told him that I already had it and didn’t need it. I did read enough of it to realize what it was, and enough of it to realize that it was not based in our shared reality. I did, however, ask him a few questions to set up the program, or as they would say in the world of courtrooms, lawsuits and legal dramas, to build a foundation. It was also meant to provide information for those who had not stumbled onto this particular nonsense. You can listen to it here:

(Of course, you can access this show and others in the embedded audio player on the left as well.)

He said that he had been sent all these documents about the “nurse’s” role in the Roswell case including the “top-secret” transcripts of her debriefing sessions. He said that he had retyped the documents and published them before destroying them. He said he was afraid of the government targeting him and his family for releasing them… he was afraid these documents had been stolen. He didn’t seem to understand my point that if he had retyped them and published them, he wouldn’t be safe because it proved he had had the documents. By destroying all the originals, he had no way to prove that the documents had ever existed and that he wasn’t just inventing the tale. There was no difference between publishing the originals so that we could see them and publishing his retyped versions of the originals since both could lead to the same place. But without the originals there was no way to verify anything about them.

I also noted that his attempts to vet the documents were nearly nonexistent. He said he looked on the Internet. I suggested that he could have contacted one of the Roswell researchers for help. His excuse was that he simply wasn’t “into UFOs and Roswell,” so he didn’t know about that. I thought typing in Roswell UFO crash would lead to our names… but he avoided all contact. And that tying this to Roswell was a way of drawing clicks to the nonsensical tale.

For those interested, you can listen to the interview and listen to his rather lame attempts to suggest the story and nurse were real. I made it clear that I didn’t believe there was a nurse or any documents. In fact, I suggested a polygraph to get at the truth and the invitation has been sent to him.

Next up is Bill Konkolesky to talk about his book, Experiencer 2: Two Worlds Collide. Should make for an interesting show.

Monday, March 22, 2021

Where is Calvin Parker?


For those who have been following the ongoing saga of the Pascagoula UFO abduction and specifically the revelations made by Calvin Parker, there is some sad news. Calvin has dropped out of the limelight in the recent weeks and Philip Mantle, publisher of Calvin’s book on the abduction, has told us that Calvin has been diagnosed with cancer. He is recovering from recent surgery.

Calvin, along with Charles Hickson, reported, in October, 1973, that they had been taken on board a UFO and subjected to a somewhat invasive physical examination. Dr. J. Allen Hynek, then the founder of the Center for UFO Studies and Dr. James Harder, APRO’s Director of Research, flew to Mississippi to investigate. Both scientists were impressed by the story and believed the men to be telling the truth.

Calvin Parker
Quite naturally, the case was wrapped in controversy because of the claim of alien abduction. There were elements of the report that were not easily explained or dismissed. Recently, as Calvin traveled the world telling of the abduction experience, other witnesses have been found. It adds a dimension of believability to the case.

I have interviewed Calvin twice on the radio version of A Different Perspective. You can use the audio file on the embedded audio player at the left here and scroll down to find and listen to those interviews.

I will confess that I don’t know what to make of this case. On the one hand it seems to be a stretch to accept the idea that alien beings are abducting humans for any sort of research. On the other, the facts as have been reported seem to support that very idea. I have said for a long time that I’m more inclined to accept these accounts of targets of opportunity than I am the tales of long-term longitudinal survey. I tend to believe Calvin’s account which doesn’t mean that there isn’t a terrestrial explanation, only that I don’t believe that he is engaged in a hoax.

Give a listen to those interviews and let me know your reactions in the comments section. As I say, I tend to believe that he’s telling the truth and I know of no real terrestrial explanation to cover the facts other than hoax. The case rests on the testimony of the two men and now on some of those who witnessed strange things that night.

Saturday, March 20, 2021

Coast to Coast - Did the Pentagon Reveal Crashed Saucer Debris


The big news in the last few days is the announcement by Tony Bragalia, that the Pentagon had confirmed to him that they had recovered UFO crash debris. Tony told me that he has been chasing the “memory metal” that was described by Bill Brazel. When I interviewed Brazel, he described three types of debris he had found in 1947. Brazel’s father, Mack, said it looked like the stuff from the contraption he had found on his ranch north of Roswell in 1947. One of those scraps was something that looked like aluminum foil but when folded or wadded up and released, would return to its original shape.

Bill Brazel

What that somewhat complicated paragraph is telling us is that material from the 1947 crash had properties that suggested metal with a memory, and Tony has been chasing that lead for several years. More than three years ago he submitted a Freedom of Information request to various government agencies. He asked for, “Associated with the Department of Defense Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program of the US Pentagon are warehouses in the Las Vegas, NV area scheduled to soon hold metal-like alloy material recovered from Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. This could include physical debris recovered by personnel of the Department of Defense as residue, flotsam, shot-off material or crashed material from UAPs or unidentified flying objects.”

All fairly specific. He received nearly 150 pages of material in response. The trouble was that there was no mention of alien spacecraft, UFOs, UAPs or anything like that in those documents. At one point, there was a mention of extraterrestrial material, but that referred using material found on other planets in construction of bases on those planets. Tony did tell me that there was nothing in the documents about anything alien.

According to him, the important connection is made in the letter that accompanied the documents. The FOIA officer, used the term, UAP in that response, and that, according to Tony is the connection. You can listen to that interview here:

It didn’t seem all that solid to me but I wanted more information. I contacted the expert in FOIA, John Greenewald, who had read the documents that Tony had recovered and issued his opinion on all this. John, like me, noticed no reference to anything alien in the documents. He found that worrisome. You can listen to that interview here:

More importantly, when I asked about the connection in the FOIA letter of response, John pointed out that it seemed to be a cut and paste job. What he meant was that as the FOIA officer wrote his response, he cut and pasted phrases from Tony’s original request into that response. That tended to mitigate the importance of the use of the term UAP in that response.

John Greenewald

Tony had suggested that the material that was to be sent to Las Vegas would be sent to Bob Bigelow of Bigelow Aerospace for reverse engineering. Bigelow when asked about this said that he had received nothing like that. He denied that he had any material created by aliens or on another planet.

It boils down to what the FOIA officer meant, and if the use of UAP meant that the Pentagon had recovered debris that was going to be provided into American industry for exploitation. Since many of the documents Tony received had already been released, and given that the classification on them was For Official Use Only, the lowest level of classification which doesn’t even require a locked drawer for storage, it seems to me, that the revelation wasn’t as exciting as Tony thought it was and didn’t actually confirm Pentagon possession of alien debris. Turns out that this was a near miss.

Friday, March 19, 2021

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Steven Bassett , Disclosure and Death Threats

Steve Bassett, he of the Paradigm Research Group, was my guest this week. I thought we would talk about Disclosure and what it would mean. We did take a few excursions into other arenas, however. You can listen to the interview here:

Steve began with providing a definition of Disclosure, but then moved onto the possibility of Congressional Hearings that would lead to Disclosure. He believes that

Steven Bassett

the time is ripe given what is happening in the world. Disclosure is the goal now, though I wondered if there was any political benefit to Disclosure. To me, the government operates not for the benefit of the governed, but to retain their power. We’ve seen plenty of examples of this in the last several years.

We did discuss, briefly, the erosion in trust, not only in the government but in the mainstream media as well. Although I didn’t mention it during the show, I was thinking of the Washington Post recent admission that they had run with a story about telephone calls and what was said based upon, apparently, a single source. Other outlets picked up the story, suggesting that the had confirmed the information. Recent events showed that the story was not accurate and the Washington Post printed a retraction.

We also talked about the implications of full Disclosure and what that might mean. Steven cited our bombardment of alien stories, programs, movies, books, documentaries and various other cultural aspects filled with the idea of alien visitation. He suggested that it was now so embedded in our culture that there wouldn’t be a big shock if the government announced that aliens had been visiting Earth for decades, if not centuries.

I did mention that contact with a technologically superior civilization resulted in the destruction of the technologically inferior civilization. Steven thought that I was talking about conquest but I was actually talking about the impact of the technology on the civilization. The technology could undermine the civilization causing radically alterations to it. Steven wanted to talk about the Aztecs and the Spanish, which wasn’t quite the point I was driving at.

Steve brought up some of the testimony by Roswell witnesses, suggesting dozens had been threatened with death if they talked about what they had seen. I thought that some of that might have been overblown and was the result of soldiers, who had been exposed to classified information being reminded that, well, disclosure of that information could result in prison and fines. Others, such as Glenn Dennis had been discredited.

Steve did send an email about this, naming several witnesses who had been threatened in this fashion, including George Wilcox, the Roswell Sheriff, quoting the Anaya brothers. Although I find that somewhat problematic, I will note two things here. One is that Barbara Dugger, granddaughter of the sheriff reported the same thing, and that this testimony is second hand at best.

He also said that Mack Brazel told radio station KGFL minority owner Bob Wolf that “Those people will kill you if I tell you what I know.” This happened in 1963 not long

Mack Brazel

before Brazel died. But once again, it is second-hand information related to researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt years later. It does seem odd that in all our discussions with Bill Brazel, he never mentioned anything like that.

During the show, I brought up Frankie Rowe, but it didn’t seem, in the initial interviews with her, that the threats had been, well, deadly. Instead, she said that she was told that her parents would end up in Orchard Park, which had been a POW camp during the Second World War.

Dr. Lejeune Foster, another of these “witnesses,” was not in Roswell in 1947. She was a doctor in San Diego, supposedly called in because of her expertise on the spinal cord and her high security clearance related to her work during the Second World War. According to the family members and her housekeeper, she returned from examining the bodies a changed woman. She said that as she was debriefed, she was told that if she talked she would lose her license to practice medicine and that she risked being killed. But researchers did not get that information from her, but her family who aren’t specifically identified.

My point was that we have no direct quotes from those involved that suggest death as the penalty for telling what they knew. We have the stories of family members and friends told literally decades after the fact. As I mentioned, the military members would have been told that the release of classified information to those not cleared would result in severe penalties of imprisonment and fine. Over the years, in the telling of the tales, those penalties might have been exaggerated. We have seen the sifting of stories as they are told and retold. Steve did mention that he didn’t believe that the military would have carried out the threats, but I have to wonder if they had been made.

Steve did predict that would we see some changes in the government position of UFOs in the very near future, suggesting the possibility of Congressional hearings in the weeks to come. He was explaining how these things come about, which, in and of itself, might be educational.

Next week is Lawrence Spencer. We’ll be talking about his book based on his contact with Matilda O’Connell MacElroy who claimed to be a technician in Roswell at the time of the crash. Should be an interesting interview. 

Thursday, March 11, 2021

Coast to Coast - Phoenix Lights, Triangular UFO Version

With the coming of the anniversary of the Phoenix Lights, I thought it time to revisit those sightings. However, I think the discussion of the lights seen over Phoenix actually masks the other, more significant sightings of a V-shaped or triangular-shaped craft that was seen over much of Arizona that night. In this discussion, I have eliminated the information about the lights to focus on that craft. I have written about it at other times. Some of the information here is based on my discussion of that craft with Mike Rogers, he of Travis Walton abduction fame. You can listen to that discussion here:

The sightings of an object that could be described as a flying wing with lights in a “V” formation were made first in Nevada rather than Arizona. Just before seven (Pacific Standard Time) a man living in Henderson, just outside of Las Vegas, said that he saw a “V”-shaped object that he thought was about the size of a Boeing 747 and that sounded like the rushing of wind. There were six lights on the leading edge. He watched as it flew to the southeast, eventually disappearing over the horizon.

A young Mike Rogers

Had this been the only sighting in that area that night, it would have been just another UFO report. A little over an hour later, at 8:15 p.m., a former police officer said that he and his family saw a cluster of lights in a “V” formation near Paulden, Arizona. He described them as red-orange balls of light. He said that there were four lights traveling together with a fifth bringing up the rear. He said that the lights were in sight for about two minutes and that they made no sound. He thought that each of the lights consisted of two parts. When he returned home, he watched them through binoculars until they vanished over the horizon.

Others reported the UFO as it flew from northern Arizona to the southern corner, a distance of about two hundred miles in about thirty minutes, or at about 400 miles per hour. The speed is not outside that of conventional aircraft, though the configuration suggests something else.

Peter Davenport, and his National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC) received dozens of calls from witnesses in Arizona that night.  According to him:

One group of three witnesses, located just north of Phoenix, reported seeing a huge, wedge-shaped craft with five lights on is ventral surface pass overhead with an eerie “gliding” type of flight. It coursed to the south and passed between two mountain peaks to the south. The witnesses emphasized how huge the object was, blocking up to 70 – 90 degrees of the sky.

A second group of witnesses, a mother and four daughters near the intersection of Indian School Road and 7th Avenue [in Phoenix], were shocked to witness an object, shaped somewhat like a sergeant’s stripes, approach from over Camelback Mountain to the north. They report that it stopped directly above them, where it hovered for an estimated 5 minutes. They described how it filled at least 30 – 40 degrees of sky, and how it exhibited a faint glow along its trailing edge. The witnesses felt they could see individual features on the ventral surface of the object, and they were certain that they were looking at a very large, solid object.

After this point in the sighting, the facts are somewhat less clear to investigators. It is known that at least one object continued generally to the south and southeast, passing over the communities of Scottsdale, Glendale, and Gilbert. One of the witnesses in Scottsdale, a former airline pilot with 13,700 hours of flight time, reported seeing the object execute a distinct turn as it approached his position on the ground. He noted that he witnessed many lights on the object as it approached him, but that the number of lights appeared to diminish as it got closer to overhead. Many other witnesses in those communities reported seeing the object pass overhead as it made its way toward the mountains to the south of Phoenix.

Other sightings occurred shortly afterward along Interstate 10 in the vicinity of Casa Grande. One family of five, who were driving from Tucson to Phoenix, reported that the object that passed over their station wagon was so large that they could see one “wing tip” of the object out one side of their car, and the other “wing tip” out the other side. They estimated they were driving toward Phoenix at approximately 80 miles per hour, and they remained underneath the object for between one and two minutes as it moved in the opposite direction. They emphasized how incredibly huge the object appeared to be as it blocked out the sky above their car.

Many witnessed, located throughout the Phoenix basin, allegedly continued to witness objects and peculiar clusters of lights for several hours following the initial sightings. One group of witnesses reported witnessing a large disc streak to the west over Phoenix at very high speed. Others reported peculiar orange “fireballs,” which appeared to hover in the sky even hours after the initial sightings.

One of the more intriguing reports was submitted by a young man who claimed to be an Airman in the Air Force, stationed at Luke Air Force Base, located to the west of Phoenix in Litchfield Park. He telephoned the National UFO Reporting Center at 3:20 a.m. on Friday, some eight hours after the sightings on the previous night, and reported that two USAF F-15C fighters had been “scrambled” from Luke AFB, and had intercepted one of the objects. Although the presence of F-15’s could never be confirmed, the airman provided detailed information which proved to be highly accurate, based on what investigators would reconstruct from witnesses over subsequent weeks and months. Two days after his first telephone call, the airman called to report that he had just been informed by his commander that he was being transferred to an assignment in Greenland.

What all this demonstrates is that there were more sightings than have been reported by most of those commenting on the lights. More important, some of the explanations offered in the days that followed did not account for the variety of sightings.

But the sightings didn’t end; they just became more controversial and produced a number of video tapes. These were lights that inspired the investigations as well as the media attention because nothing excites the media like a good visual. One of the tapes, shown repeatedly on local, national, and cable television, was analyzed using an impressive looking array of computers and some very sophisticated software. The conclusions drawn in those early investigations were that the lights were not natural phenomena and did not exhibit any of the features of manufactured lights. In other words, they were unique. Later investigation suggested that flares were responsible for some of those sightings.

Quite naturally, the Air Force was questioned about this and the official spokesman said, as usual, the Air Force no longer investigates UFOs. Most people in Phoenix were unhappy with that answer and believed that the Air Force was hiding the truth about this.

Others, including private researchers began to gather the stories of the lights that had moved across Arizona, some of them believing that all the sightings were related. There were those who claimed to have a triangular-shaped object and others who claimed to have seen individual lights in a triangular or “V” shaped formation. Some thought the lights were white, others red, and still others saw various faded colors in the lights.

There is no radar data available for any of this. According to those at Sky Harbor these high flights would not be monitored on their radar. It would be controlled by FAA radar in Albuquerque. If such a flight had been made it would have been represented by an asterisk, but since they flight would have been far above their control zone, they would not have been concerned about. Radar records would have been kept in Albuquerque, but since no question about the radar displays was raised within two weeks, the tapes were reused. The record has been lost.

It might also be said that this is where things become confusing. There is good testimony that one formation of lights was identified as airplanes. While those in the UFO community were talking of multiple formations, it was reported by Steve Wilson of The Arizona Republic, that they might be right. He interviewed four people who saw the lights and whose testimony suggests there was more than a single formation. He reported:

Dr. Bradley Evans, 47, is a clinical psychiatrist from Tucson. He and his wife, Kris, were driving north on Interstate 10 to a swimming meet in Tempe. They watched the lights for 20 minutes or so move slowly south in a diamond formation and pass over them at an estimated 1,500 feet. Even then, with the car’s moon roof open, they heard not a sound from the sky. He was ‘awed’ by the experience and has no idea what he saw. Kris said she couldn’t explain it either and guesses it was ‘something military.’

…Max Saracen, 34, is a real estate consultant who lives in north Phoenix. He and his wife, Shala, were driving west on Deer Valley Road when they saw a huge triangular craft. They pulled off the road, got out and watched it pass overhead. “It was very spooky – this gigantic ship blocking out the stars and silently creeping across the sky. I don’t know of any aircraft with silent engines.

Adding to this was an investigation by Arizona MUFON investigator Richard F. Motzer who studied “all the videos I could find and interviewed other witnesses,” outlined his research in the July 1997 (number 351) of the MUFON Journal. He wrote:

The key to the solution was also the biggest mystery. Why did all videos of 3-13-97 at 10:00 p.m. have a different number of lights, different order of starting and decay, and shapes?

It was really dependent upon the observation point of the witness in the Phoenix area and, most important, how high their viewing point was. It turned out that the lights were not over Phoenix, but near the Estrella Mountains to the southwest. This determination was made after viewing all the video tapes and going to all but one of the sites and shooting 35 mm film in daylight. Using the point marked by the pilot, I drew a line from each of the sites where the Estrella lights were taped. On the Rairden tape there are nine lights, but only eight lights on the Moon Valley footage and just in the early part you see a light form briefly which then goes out, but did it really? No, something must have blocked it out, but it was still there in the Rairden footage. As the lights drifted downward, some lights were blocked out by the many small peaks making up the Estrella range.

…What I wanted to find was footage where a tripod was used and the zoom lens was left in one spot. To my surprise there were several clips that met these specifications. What I did next was to mark each segment the ground on a monitor and the ending position of each light. When I ran the editor video deck in reverse, I could see each light rise in altitude and drift to the right or to the left. In all the video clips the results were the same. Just before each light went out, there was an increase in the descent of each light.

What this suggested to Motzer was that the lights were, in fact flares. The witnesses believe that the lights were in front of the Estrella Mountains, but the video showed they were not. He learned that the Army had been firing flares that night and that these were parachute flares. The heat generated by the flare helps to slow the rate of descent of the flares, but as the flare begins to die out, the rate of descent increases. But there should be smoke visible and some of the witnesses said they had seen no smoke. Motzer reported that the control tower crew at Sky Harbor had seen the smoke.

With that, including the confirmation by the Army National Guard they were firing flares that night, that they were firing them at 8:30, 9:25 and 10:00 on March 13 and the evidence on the tapes suggests flares, that seems to end the questions. Contrary to the reports from Village Labs, the evidence available suggests flares as the most logical and best solution here.

But this does not explain the “V” formations that some people reported. Giving the timing of some of the reports and given the length of time that some of the “V” formations were visible to witnesses, it seems that there might have been more than a single event. That would mean that both Stanley and Contry saw airplanes but some of the others didn’t.

This seems to be where the March 13 events remains. As I mentioned briefly, I believe the video tapes show flares and some of the “V” formations are identified as aircraft, but there isn’t a good explanation for the sightings of the large, V-shaped craft. As I say, those sightings have been lost in the glare of the flares and the discussion of the Phoenix Lights.