Monday, January 01, 2024

HIckson/Parker Lost Interview Tapes Recovered

Blogger’s Note: We are told, based on the scientific research of, well scientists such as Dr. Elizabeth Loftus, that memories fade rapidly. The best testimony is that taken within five days of the event. That taken within hours is certainly preferrable to that taken months, years, or decades later. We are told that each time we access a memory, it can by changed by the simple act of attempting to remember.

Dr. Ulric Neisser tested this in 1986 when the space shuttle Challenger exploded. He provided his first-year psychology students with a short questionnaire about the disaster asking, for example, how they had learned of the event, where they were and what they had been doing. He gave the same questionnaire to those same students as they finished their college education four years later. He found that about a quarter of them had memories that were at odds with what they had written on the day or two after the event. About half had some confusion or mistakes in their memory and about a quarter had accurate memories of the event.

The simple point here is that in any investigation, it is best to interview the witness as soon as possible. That as time passes memories can change with new information added and older information lost. When investigating the Pascagoula abduction of Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, any information gathered within hours or a couple of days of the event is preferrable to that gathered decades later. If there is a discrepancy, the best course is to accept the first information over that gathered later.

I say all this as preamble to the following press release, that reports on audio files of the interviews conducted by Dr. James Harder and Dr. J. Allen Hynek literally within hours of the reported abduction that have recently been found. It provides a necessary history of APRO and the research conducted by that organization. It also reports on the project headed by David Marler to archive UFO related information in a central repository. Finally, it mentions the recovery of taped interviews with Hickson and Parker that had resided in the APRO files recently obtained by Marler’s project called National UFO Historical Records Center. This is, for UFO research, a truly historic find.

The Pascagoula Tapes.

Please note one other aspect of this. Unlike the situation in the past, in which researchers often withheld information for their own use, here is an example of sharing the information as soon as it was discovered. It is a move toward a more scientific attitude in UFO research. One that we all should take as a model.



 For decades, the civilian American UFO research group APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organisation) was the go-to UFO group headed by married couple Jim and Coral Lorenzen. Like most UFO groups it gradually faded away to be replaced by something else. APRO was without a doubt a pioneering UFO group and for decades after they closed down access to their archive of UFO files and related material was impossible.

It was therefore great news when David Marler, Executive Director of the National UFO Historical Records Center in Albuquerque, New Mexico put out a  press release. It seems coincidental that in early November 2023 I had been discussing the location of various files on social media when this great news was released by David Marler, the Executive Director of NUFOHRC.  It took the UFO community completely by surprise. Here is the press release in full dated November 28th 2023: 

The Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) was one of the oldest and largest civilian UFO research organizations in the world. The research files of this organization have been transferred to the National UFO Historical Records Center (NUFOHRC) in Rio Rancho, NM.   

Dave Marler and the Pascagoula Tapes.


Press Release


Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Scientific Adviser to U.S. Air Force Project Blue Book, cited APRO and NICAP (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena) the best civilian UFO groups of their time. Both of these collections of UFO archival records along with the files of the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) are now housed at the headquarters of NUFOHRC.

APRO was founded in 1952 by Jim and Coral Lorenzen, later based in Tucson, AZ. NICAP was started in 1957 in Washington D.C. by Major Donald Keyhoe. CUFOS was founded in 1973 by Dr. J. Allen Hynek in Chicago, IL. All of these records are in the process of being digitized for electronic storage, analyzation, transfer, and ease of access.

The collective files of APRO, NICAP, CUFOS, as well as Dr. J. Allen Hynek’s original U.S. Air Force Project Blue Book files, constitutes the largest civilian historical UFO case file collection in the United States, if not the world.

An appropriate site is being sought in the Albuquerque, NM area for a permanent facility to house this massive collection of UFO research data.

The facility will allow for public access to the UFO data as well as viewing of historic photos and artifacts from the UFO research field. NUFOHRC plans to cooperate with civilian, scientific, and governmental UFO research efforts.

Never in U.S. history has such a vast quantity of UFO records (numbering in the tens of thousands) been centralized in one location.

As a 501(c) (3) non-profit organization, a tax-deductible donation may be made to NUFOHRC to fund a free-standing public archive building which will make these files and other historical materials more readily accessible for UFO researchers, academics, scientists, and U.S. government organizations. Donations can be made online or via mail.

For more information, contact Executive Director David Marler at:

National UFO Historical Records Center

P.O. Box 15541

Rio Rancho, NM 87174


In short David Marler and NUFOHC were now in  possession of what I called the Holy Grail of civilian UFO research files. I have known David Marler for a number of years and I was happy to donate my own humble collection of UFO files and related material to NUFOHRC in 2023. David knows what projects and topics I am working on but it was going to take a good amount of time to go through the APRO files but I was confident that these long ‘lost’ files were now safe and could bear fruit.

The Pascagoula Tapes

Since 2018 I have been working with Calvin Parker on his encounter on the Pascagoula River, Mississippi on October 11th 1973. I worked with Calvin Parker right up until he died in August 2023. I spoke with him on the phone shortly before he died and told him that I’d continue to be the torch bearer for his and Charles Hickson’s encounter and the search would go on for more material.

Thankfully, I was joined in this research by my friend and colleague Dr Irena Scott from Ohio, USA. Over the last five years we have had amazing support from UFO groups and individuals around the world who have supplied us with all they have on the Pascagoula encounter. There are too many to mention but working with these amazing colleagues we have uncovered: documents and photos of the minor injuries on Parker & Hickson, the full transcript of their interview at Keesler AFB, the full unredacted US Coast Guard documents on the USO sighting in the Pascagoula River and the list goes on and on. This is a great example of how UFO researchers can work together. Nothing has come from the false claims of those stating that they ran a MoD UFO project or a secret DoD UFO study. The same applies to so-called ‘whistle-blowers’. They have put nothing on the table. In fact the whole ‘disclosure lobby’ has ignored the subject of alien abductions.

Dr Irena Scott and I have also obtained firsthand eyewitness testimony from UFO witnesses that first spoke up in 1973 and others who we have either located ourselves or have stepped out of the shadows in these last five years. In  fact they are still coming forward with several new witnesses being interviewed in the last few months. Some of these witnesses were in the direct vicinity of where Parker & Hickson had their encounter. Mr Charles Anderson was driving across the bridge that goes over the Pascagoula River when he saw the ‘blue UFO’ down below him. Mr Louis Lee was working on the opposite side of the river that night as a crane driver in the shipyard. As soon  as he got in  his cab he could see this ‘darn thing’ out over the river. And most fascinating of all are Mr and Mrs Blair. They were on the opposite side of the river that night and saw the Parker/Hickson encounter and they had their own alien abduction experience as well. 


It was much to my surprise and delight that I received a message from David Marler on Thursday December 28th (2023) asking the following:

“Do you have any of Harder’s regressive hypnosis tapes related to Pascagoula? I just found one in the APRO audio tapes. I’m listening to Calvin under hypnosis. Yes. I’m not with it now. But there are references to the event occurring just days before. Also, there is recorded discussion between Hynek and Fred Diamond.”

I replied immediately that I did not have this material and could I have a copy please. David, being the gent and genuine UFO researcher that he is, digitized these audio cassettes for me and they are now with me and Dr Irena Scott.

A colleague is already on standby to try and boost the sound quality of these files and they will be sent to him shortly.

There are five separate audio sequences. They are:

1. Dr James Harder hypnotic regression on 10-14-73 (October 14th, 1973) of Calvin Parker re Pascagoula MS UFO incident on 10-11-73.

2. Dr James Harder interviewed in wake of Pascagoula MS incident on10-11-73.

3. Pascagoula MS 10-11-73 incident interview with Hickson and Parker by Sheriff Fred Diamond.

4. Sheriff Fred Diamond Interviewed by Dr. J Allen Hynek re the Pascagoula Incident on 10-11-73.

5. Sheriff Fred Diamond plays secret recording of Calvin and Parker to Hynek re the Pascagoula Incident on 10-11-73.

At my request David Marler took a couple of photos of the original tapes including one of himself holding them. These photos and all of these audio files remain copyright David Marler/NUFOHRC.

It goes without saying that they are a huge find and are a significant part of the history of the 1973 Pascagoula alien abduction account and to the wider study of such experiences.  I cannot thank David Marler enough for his cooperation with this and for proving up with copies of this truly fascinating material.  David is still going through the APRO files and who knows what else might turn up. As yet we have not decided how to make this new information available in public. We will take it one step at a time with the first step being the enhancement of the sound quality of these audio files.


Dr Scott and I know that there are others out there that have more information on this case. With the greatest of respect all we ask is that whatever you might have, no matter how insignificant you might think it is, to please share it with us. We are looking for anything: newspaper cuttings, photos, correspondence, ephemera and so on.


Over the last five years we have literally interviewed dozens of eyewitnesses to the UFO events back in 1973. Most of these witnesses were perfectly willing to allow us to use their real names. There were a few that were not happy with this so we simply used a false name instead. No problem. We are confident that there are still other witnesses out there that have yet to go on the record. What we would like to ask is for you to contact us and allow Dr Scott and I to document your sighting. We can do this in complete confidence if so required.


If you would like to contact us regarding any of the above I can be contacted on face via private message or directly on email: 


RRRGroup said...

Splendid find and your posting Kevin, important in a number of ways.

The Pascagoula episode -- despite Calvin's late reportage of a "woman" interloper among the kidnappers -- seems to have been a real event -- the nature of which is open to speculation.


RRRGroup said...

Splendid find and your posting Kevin, important in a number of ways.

The Pascagoula episode -- despite Calvin's late reportage of a "woman" interloper among the kidnappers -- seems to have been a real event -- the nature of which is open to speculation.


Philip Mantle said...

David Marler has supplied us with copies of this historic find. Two of the five recordings have already been transcribed. Work on enhancing the audio quality of the other three is underway. I will keep you posted of any new developments.

Sky70 said...

A "Splendid Find" For what? What does these interviews prove? Where's the evidence my friends? Or do we accept wagging tongues with no evidence?

KRandle said...

Sky70 -

It's splendid find because it allows us to listen to the first interviews conducted with the two men. It provides insight into their mind set at the time and not what they were saying months, years and decades later. It provides us with the information gathered by two scientists who were on the scene quickly.

The evidence is the testimony here...

And the other evidence is the identification of witnesses who were in the area and who witnessed part of the abduction. And before you begin to spout off about witnesses who appeared in the years after the event, or fall back on Philip Klass suggestion that no one saw parts of the abduction, I'll point to the Air Force investigation the NEXT day that named two witness and one of those led to two others.

So, we have corroborative testimony, we have the ORIGINAL statements by the two men and various law enforcement officers. What this proves is that case is stronger today than it was before the tapes were located and no, it does not prove they were abducted by alien creatures, but this latest tends to prove that they weren't lying.

Under your logic, we can throw out all testimony because the argument can be reduced to "wagging tongues."

And, once again, I will point out that testimony is evidence... not necessarily the best evidence, but it is evidence, like it or not.

Sky70 said...

Evidence is testimony? Most professionals of the mind would not accept this talk-said at all, esp. after 50 years having gone by. Memory fades after a few years and in this case some 50 YEARS later or so, the gullible still believes it! What's the use of this OLD UFO case? Please explain, HOW does it, this case, advance Ufology?

map any slide said...

Great work, Kevin! Looks like David Marler did some great work too! The new database in New Mexico has already proved itself to be valuable. Hopefully, someday we can all know the truth about whatever happened on the Pascagoula River in 1973. Some time ago, I remember I heard mean idiots on morning radio who mocked Hickson and Parker, and it made me sad. Shame on those who mock innocent victims! Nick Redfern said what happened on the Pascagoula River in 1973 was a secret experiment with aerosol LSD, the same thing he said about what happened in a forest near Air Force Bases in England in 1980. Kevin, what is your opinion about that theory? Makes no sense to me.
May I ask about this part of the above post? Quote: "Nothing has come from the false claims of those stating that they ran a MoD UFO project or a secret DoD UFO study. The same applies to so-called ‘whistle-blowers’. They have put nothing on the table. In fact the whole ‘disclosure lobby’ has ignored the subject of alien abductions."
Did you mean Nick Pope who claims he ran a UFO project at the UK's MoD? Was the secret DoD UFO study AATIP or AAWSAP? In that case, did you mean Elizondo or Lacatski? Does not matter anyway since nothing has come from the false claims. Wonder who the unnamed so-called whistle-blowers could be. After what happened during the previous year, David Grusch comes to mind since he technically went through the process of filing formal complaints as laws require. Retelling rumors is gossip, not heroic whistle blowing. I agree, the same applies as nothing has come from the claims whether they be from selected veterans who testified to Congress and were interviewed in news media or from earlier when we were told incredible stories of alleged secret space programs. While most of the disclosure lobby has in fact ignored the subject of alien abductions, weeks or months ago while listening to Richard Hoagland's podcast I distinctly remember I heard disclosure lobbyist and activist Steven Basset talk about how governments will eventually be asked uncomfortable questions about alleged abduction phenomena. Different factions in the disclosure lobby all have their own reasons to ignore abduction stories.
Feel like I found this post too late, but I guess I can comment here anyway. I ought to check this blog earlier in the week, not just on weekends. Thanks, Kevin! Keep up the good work!

Terry the Censor said...

>Dr James Harder hypnotic regression

Kevin's book Abduction Enigma warns us of Harder's leading questions.

Paul Young said...

@ Sky70 ..."What's the use of this OLD UFO case? Please explain, HOW does it, this case, advance Ufology?"

The continuous revisiting of previous cases is crucial, if for nothing more than to compare witness statements from the time of the event to later testimony.
You can say that Alan Godfrey's story has not changed one jot. Travis Walton has been consistent with his version of events for decades (though, admittedly, his brother-in-law's testimony can change on a daily basis depending on the current state of the relationship between his sister and Walton)

On the other hand you have Embellisher-in Chief Penistone (Rendlesham) whose ridiculous expansion over the years has done nothing but damage an otherwise strong case.
Raking over the coals of older cases can bring to light many things that can benefit both sides of the argument.

In any what point would you consider a UFO case to be too old to re-examine?

Factor in the stretching out of time caused by delay in disclosure of evidence that is then forced out by FOIA's. Decades can pass before that case is independently looked at by UFOlogists.
An example would be David Fravor's encounter which is now a 20 year old case, though the wider public were only aware of it in recent years.

Philip Mantle said...

It's very difficult if not impossible for anyone to avoid asking leading questions. I asked Calvin Parker if the hypnosis was of any use to him, he replied "No, because I already remember it all."

Philip Mantle said...

We have had several high profile criminal cases here in the UK where 'celebrities' were found guilty of multiple sexual offences and they are now in prison as a result. Most if not all of the testimony against these men was victims verbal testimony and all of it was historical in nature. I'd like to ask Sky70 when does witnesses testimony become unusable. Is it an hour after any such events happened, a day, a week, a year, ten years, twenty years ? The recently uncovered audio files provide an historical snapshot of what was happening at the time and added to all of the other information we have amassed makes the Pascagoula case the best documented of them all. It does not prove they were abducted by aliens but strongly supports, in my humble opinion, that something extraordinary that night on the Pascagoula River, exactly what, I have no idea.

KRandle said...

Sky70 -

You should be able to figure out how this case is different and advances our understanding. It is multiple witness, there were others who saw the UFO in the area where Hickson and Parker were abducted, and there is documentation for that based on the Air Force investigation the very next day. These additional witnesses were named in that document. Since that time additional information has been found and many of the skeptical arguments have collapsed under scrutiny. The data suggest an incredible encounter of some nature. There is no explanation for the sighting other than hoax... or the latest, a suggestion of hypnagogic hallucination fails because it requires the witness to be asleep.

Old cases provide a foundation on which to build and to reject them because they are old misses the point.