Thursday, August 25, 2016

The Shaver Fiction = Carrion’s Latest Proof?

(Blogger's Note: Brad Sparks did what I had planned to do which was provide some information suggesting that Carrion's theory was not built on a solid foundation. He has been on this psy-op explanation for the 1947 UFO wave for a long time. This new aspect, published recently has some flaws, as Brad points out. Brad's analysis follows.)

James Carrion's latest blog posting claims he now finally has "proof," "hard evidence," that US deception operations fabricated the flying saucer flap of 1947 and launched the whole modern UFO era in order to perpetrate a strategic deception on the USSR.  We will leave aside for now the basic questions of how major sightings at Muroc Field (future Edwards AFB) Flight Test Center and by White Sands rocket scientists can be explained by such a vast deception operation. 

His "proof" is what is now his central figure in the entire plot, a "Col." Carl Goldbranson, and an FBI memo of July 21, 1947, released decades ago.  But Carrion has so far failed to prove that Goldbranson did anything more than ask the FBI to investigate a notorious character who supposedly knew the origin of flying saucers and whose location and timing supposedly coincided with certain incidents in early July 1947.  That's what's in the FBI memo.  

And it's late in the game, long after the 1947 saucer flap ended on about July 10, with Goldbranson's response very slow and lackadaisical for something supposed to be part of some hush-hush strategic deception operation.  Shouldn't Goldbranson have been doing "this" (whatever "hands dirty" stuff it's supposed to be) before the flap, before, say Kenneth Arnold? 

Carrion apparently missed the fact that it was the infamous Richard Shaver whose name got through the document censors in one place of the FBI memo.  Yes, the Richard Shaver of the lunatic Shaver Mysteries, full of "deros" or "deranged robots" -- the so-called robots who were not actually even robots (how deranged is that?!?) -- and Lemuria tales. 

Carrion has failed even to prove that Goldbranson was continuing his wartime deception duties 2 years after the war, in peacetime, in the face of his FBI memo placing Goldbranson in the wrong agency (Army Intelligence), not on the deception staff (Joint Chiefs). 

But Goldbranson did not even ask the FBI to perpetrate any deception!  How is asking the FBI to investigate someone amount to carrying out a deception??  Does any of this deceive the Soviet intelligence agencies?  And into believing what?  That a marginal character like Richard Shaver of the Shaver Mystery stories and the "truth" about underground worlds and Lemuria, was a credible bearer of intelligence about flying saucers being US secret weapons??  The Kremlin halls would have been shaking with laughter at such "capitalist" insanity. 

Carrion charges that Goldbranson was "getting his hands dirty in the UFO controversy of 1947" and "had no reason to be involved unless he was actively promoting a deception plan."  Again, how is asking the FBI to investigate a crackpot amount to "actively promoting a deception plan" against the USSR??  How is asking for investigation a getting of one's "hands dirty"?  Seems like a fair-minded gathering of information, that's all.  

At best, if Goldbranson was indeed working in some deception activity, then this seems to be a cover-one's-bases effort to make sure Shaver wasn't a Soviet deception against us through Shaver's promotion of cuckoo saucer-like tales -- not a strategic deception but mere harassing disinformation to keep our counterintelligence agencies busy chasing after windmills.  

Carrion evidently has not figured out that Shaver's name and his location at "Lily Lake" are apparently redacted from the FBI memo of July 21, 1947, cited by Carrion as his bombshell "proof" that UFO's in 1947 were a US strategic deception against the USSR.  The "Shaver" name appears in one place Carrion seems to have overlooked, which the FBI reviewers let slip through the censorship.  If Carrion does know it was Shaver, it is odd that he would withhold discussion of that vital and discrediting point.  

But the claim (by anyone), regardless whether Carrion knew it was Shaver (that only makes it worse), of having answers to the saucer mystery, made in a mysterious anonymous telegram to the AAF (from Shaver's cohort Ray Palmer??), certainly sounds like crank material. 

In another place in the redacted FBI memo, the same paragraph naming Shaver (by accidental slipup of the censors), it states that the two saucer (UFO) sightings on July 7, 1947, occurred "in the proximity of [Lily Lake]" (I supplied the 9-space redacted text here).

So that, plus the unsigned telegram to the AAF on July 5 naming [Shaver] at [Lily Lake, McHenry, Illinois] as someone who knew the origin of flying saucers was sufficient cause for Col. Carl Goldbranson to ask the FBI to "conduct some investigation of Shaver" (reviewer slipped and left Shaver's name in here).  (My thanks to Isaac Koi for supplying the info about Shaver's residence in 1947 at Lily Lake, McHenry, Illinois, and Mary Castner at CUFOS for background info on the area.) 

But Col. Goldbranson is described by the FBI as with ARMY -- "Intelligence Division of the War Department" -- NOT the AAF, and NOT the Joint Security Control of the JCS (Joint Chiefs of Staff), in charge of deception planning and possibly operations.  

Did the FBI get this wrong?  Did the FBI Liaison Agent S. Wesley Reynolds who knew all the top intelligence generals and officers in the military, CIG and State Dept just not know who Col. Goldbranson was? Did Goldbranson lie to the FBI about who he worked for?  Maybe, but Carrion needs to prove it. 

Right now, Carrion has not even proved that his crucial proof, Goldbranson, even worked on deception operations in 1947.  Maybe he did, but no such proof is given, it's just hinted at, and insinuated, Goldbranson "would" have been perfect to "fill that billet."  But did he?  

Carrion makes a crucial mistake in misreading Goldbranson's rank as of mid-1947 (his source seems to say G was a Lt. Col. and not full Colonel until December 1948).  This means Carrion has the wrong guy on the wrong staff of Joint Security Control even by his own argument.  

FOOTNOTE:  Carrion makes much out of a May 1947 charter for the postwar continuation of the Joint Security Control (JSC) group of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  First off, only the Special Section of the JSC conducts cover and deception planning and coordination according to the charter.  

The JSC charter states that only 2 AAF officers served on the entire staff of 10, and these were an AAF Colonel and a Lt Colonel.  The AAF Colonel served on the Executive Section (admin) but did double-duty on the understaffed deception-op Special Section.  But Goldbranson was a Lt Colonel and evidently not this guy, not this Colonel.  The AAF Lt Colonel served on the Security Section doing security policies and declassifications of documents for historical purposes (almost FOIA-like!).  If Goldbranson was there then he would have been this guy, the Lt Colonel, doing security work not deception ops.  If I am wrong about this Carrion needs to prove it with specific documentation proving that Goldbranson really was on the deception Special Section and that he was even on the JSC at all in July 1947.  

Carrion has some interesting and provocative ideas but unfortunately does not prove his case, in fact does not even make a prima facie (on its face) showing, one that appears to hold together at first glance.  

The FBI memo is a killer by putting Goldbranson in a completely different, wrong agency, right on the face of it, and he didn't catch that or did but doesn't try to explain that (no doubt part of the whole "deception" coverup, of course he might say).  He needs direct evidence, not speculative inference, and needs to make a tighter, more logical case.  I am willing to consider it and give it a fair hearing. 

Brad Sparks


Jack Brewer said...


Perhaps the following doc will help clarify understandings of Goldbranson's status:

I appreciate James Carrion's efforts.

I also appreciate the efforts of those, such as you, Kevin, who desire to fact-check and verify. That's a valuable part of the process and I'm hopeful some new insights can be established.

I find the Mirage Men-UFO connections of interest, and I feel strongly we should encourage following those leads.


James Carrion said...

My reply to Kevin's article can be found here:

James Carrion

Mr. Sweepy said...


I did a lot of reading about J. Edgar Hoover and wondering of your question about what happened and Col. Goldbranson involvement. I believe his number one project before was the Cold War with the Russian. Hoover and his men was seriously looking for Russian agents in the US at that time. It has never been clear that Hoover and the FBI knew the Russians has a spy in New Mexico at the time but did a few years later. The more I read I really believe that Hoover didn't want the FBI involved. As in the one document, Hoover didn't want his agents to chase flying hub caps and trash can lids.

But as I raised with you in a email, the military did technically break the Posse Comitatus Act but search the ranch. Before you laugh I don't believe for a moment anyone even thought about the legalities and the military doing a search. I believe that the military was using good judgment. However the military when they brought in the trucks and manpower they KNEW that they were not dealing with a earthly aircraft.

Technically, Hoover and the FBI had the legal responsibility to search the ranch under the National Security Act. However the military just went and didn't think about the law.

I did a ton of reading about the Posse Comitatus Act and court ruling, and believe Hoover would have thought about this. He already had his men chasing spies and wanted to keep his agency clean, legally speaking. This would also been consistent with Hoover and the Mob. Hoover didn't want the FBI involved with chasing down hoods in the 50's. He didn't get the FBI going after the mob until the politicians like Bobby Kennedy forced his hand.

So you comment about Col. Goldbranson speaking for the military on security issues does make more sense to me. If the Col. did any deception it might have been afterwards.

Brian B said...

This theory seems like a "forced fit" lacking in concrete evidence. The FBI memo is well known but hardly proves Carrian's theory is right. At best it's just another interesting hypothesis that needs further evidence.

We already know the USAAF had been involved in deception strategies during WWII. That's nothing new. The USAF has continued that for decades especially on the subject of UFO's (Doty for example).

If we accept Carrion's theory that Goldbranson was the master of the 1947 flying saucer wave, we could just as easily conclude his role was really about planning deception that provided cover for the truth behind flying saucers, whatever that may be.

If the man was a master of deception, he could have played his hand in either direction, meaning he could have been asked to return to Washington to advise on deceiving people of the truth behind the mystery.

There's nothing here that proves Goldbranson created fictitious flying saucer tales, or the 1947 saucer flap, just to intimidate the Soviets.

Carrion's premise smacks of the kind of explanation offered by Annie Jacobsen, which while interesting, lacks evidence.

Carrion needs to come up with a declassified memo that states the special section of the JSC purposely hoaxed the 1947 saucer craze to confuse "Uncle Joe".

purrlgurrl said...

Since he left MUFON (and let's leave out the "he said, she said" aspects of that - only the participants know what's true), Carrion seems to have an ax to grind against Ufology (not that Ufology doesn't deserve a good kick in the arse). But just as Ufology is heavily influenced by mid-20th century science fiction, Carrion now seems to be heavily influenced by Cold War spy fiction. Having read the labryinthine reasoning behind the Ghost Rockets deception theory, I was left shaking my head thinking what was seen and wildly misinterpreted by panicky Scandinavians were probably just a few early Soviet rocket test firings, which would easily explain US interest in the events. I read his blog piece and remain unconvinced it's any type of "smoking gun" evidence of a vast US UFO deception intelligence operation. That seems just as much wishful thinking as flying saucers from Mars. Where Carrion really fails to convince me (and maybe nobody else) is in making me understand why create an intelligence deception operation based on a fiction about spaceships from another planet? Would such an operation really deceive the Soviets (who likely would have laughed their butts off at this type of stupidity - they were never that stupid, they went into space before we did). Or could it have been to cover up other activity such as overflights of the US by other countries (maybe even our allies) now wary of us since we had used an atomic weapon on civilians?

KRandle said...

All -

Please note that Brad Sparks was the author of this piece, which is not to say that I don't agree with it. Brad just managed to get something written before I did and he probably did a better job of it than I would.

Pitch313 said...

This sort of deception operation doesn't seem likely to deceive the Soviets about military technologies, possibilities, intentions, or deployments circa 1947. They had and copied the B-29. They knew we had an atomic bomb and pursued intelligence about it.

Maybe the US military was interested in deceiving the public about something with UFO flaps. Maybe the notion that we wanted to or were spying with aircraft on the Soviets.

David Rudiak said...

The big problem with all these "UFOs are intelligence deception operations to deceive whomever" (Russians, Americans, etc.) is that they make no sense. Why would the "enemy" assume your deception devices were alien instead of yours unless they had VERY good reason to believe they were based on their own intelligence gathering operations (radar, jet interceptions, etc.).

It makes about as much sense as a "Santa Claus and his flying reindeer" or "Dumbo the Flying Elephant' deception operations. The Russians (or whomever) will not buy it because they have no reason to believe that Santa Claus, flying reindeer, or flying elephants exist.

Such deception could ONLY work if the other side does indeed believe that alien spacecraft are penetrating their airspace based on other very good evidence. The reason UFOs were studied by the U.S.A.F., e.g., was spelled out very clearly by A.F. Reg. 200-2 issued in 1953 & 1954 that first defined the term UFO as any anomalous aircraft by shape and/or performance that could not be identified even after investigation and were to be studied for national security reasons and their "technical aspects".

When we were flying U-2's and spy balloons over the Soviet Union in the 1950s, the Soviets were NEVER fooled that these were UFOs or alien spaceships. They knew exactly what they were dealing with. Why? Because there was nothing anomalous in their shape or flight characteristics to lead them to believe they were anything other than conventional flying objects and U.S. in origin.

Such "deception operations" would also have to operate world wide, because UFOs are reported in every godforsaken nook and cranny of the planet, such as Antarctica. How do you pull that off, and keep the target of your "deception" believing in the deception for at least the last 70 years? (On both sides no less?) That's one long and massive con.

James Carrion said...

The Human Deception Hypothesis (HDH) unlike the ET Hypothesis (ETH) or other hypotheses for UFOs is subject to the scientific tenet of falsifiability - that is to prove a theory, you have to be able to disprove it as well. There are two primary reasons why I pursue the HDH, one is because it can be proven one way or another. Each declassified document provides either supporting or damning evidence.
The second reason I focus on the HDH is because it has precedence based on documented deception operations from WW2 and deception planners and implementers at the highest level of government who were also in position in 1947 to conduct deception, including Carl E. Goldbranson, Hoyt Vandenberg, George C. McDonald, Stephen J. Chamberlin - all who were current or prior members of Joint Security Control. That is reason enough to pursue this line of research.
If UFO researchers would spend time pursuing the HDH with as much fervor as they pursue the ETH or rabbit hole fantasies like MJ-12, then instead of commenting why it can't be based only on opinion, it can be put to bed based on documented facts. Spark's comments have been answered on my blog here:
I hope he finds the time to post his response here.

James Carrion said...

Dave, I am not sure I follow your arguments here:

"Why would the "enemy" assume your deception devices were alien instead of yours unless they had VERY good reason to believe they were based on their own intelligence gathering operations (radar, jet interceptions, etc.). It makes about as much sense as a "Santa Claus and his flying reindeer" or "Dumbo the Flying Elephant' deception operations. The Russians (or whomever) will not buy it because they have no reason to believe that Santa Claus, flying reindeer, or flying elephants exist."

I don't think the deception planners wanted the Russians to believe they were "alien". A more likely scenario is that they wanted the Russians to believe it was American technology - something the Americans were experimenting with and the Russians would want as well. In 1947, there was a real fear of Russian aggression and if the atom bomb didn't intimidate them, then a secret weapon kept in reserve may.

"Such "deception operations" would also have to operate world wide, because UFOs are reported in every godforsaken nook and cranny of the planet, such as Antarctica. How do you pull that off, and keep the target of your "deception" believing in the deception for at least the last 70 years? (On both sides no less?) That's one long and massive con."

I don't claim that every UFO sighting is a human deception. To meet the goals of the deception planners, only some of them have to be human initiated. For example, my book Anachronism documents human initiated deception for the Ghost Rockets over Scandinavia, not over South America or Asia or anywhere in between. I am not trying to prove human deception is behind every reported sighting in 1947 but instead those that are related to the pivotal cases of Kenneth Arnold, Maury Island and Roswell.

cda said...

I take David Rudiak's side here (boy is that a real surprise!).

James Carrion refers to three cases of 1947 as "pivotal". Only one of these (Arnold) was "pivotal" at the time. Roswell was unheard of until 1980 and Maury Island only made the news because of the deaths of the two AF men but thereafter was of little public interest except to Arnold and Ray Palmer.

To suggest these 3 cases were the result of 'deception planners' in high positions in the US is preposterous and laughable.

I am reminded of the thesis, proposed as far back as 1960 by a certain Dr Leon Davidson, that Adamski's contacts with Venusians and Saturnians were instigated by the CIA as part of some grand plan to fool the US public into believing UFOs were interplanetary! And further that the Washington DC radar sightings were a CIA-caused electronic countermeasures affair, again to fool the USAF and civilian airport radar operators (and maybe Russia as well?).

So these guys, whoever they are or were, actually set up and instigated the whole Roswell affair to fool the Russians! Stalin must be laughing in his grave.

And what does Mr Carrion have to say about that unparalleled British UFO case - Rendlesham?

Mr. Sweepy said...

Mr. Carrion,
This HDH and ETH sound like more mumbo-jumbo. I Take the time to read the real documents and look for comment sense reasons about what was happening, who and why. From July 6, 1947 through the whole month, there were a many things happening behind the screen. For example there was a FBI report coming out of Ft. Worth as I recall. So I am convinced Hoover had a good idea what was happened but maybe not all the details. And I am also sure many decision makers didn't have all the pieces about what had happened.

So I agree with Kevin again, that the meeting between Hoover and Goldbranson was likely about security and not deception. Something else, could this two man just had a friendship or professional business relationship? Could Hoover have had Goldbranson as a good between passing on his thoughts about the FBI's roles with the military? That's plausible but there this no more evidence for this as some wild deception theory is there?

Last, forget everything after the Japanese and Germans surrendered in 1945. Goldbranson was overseas and working under the rules of war against each country then. That came to a end. After August, 1945, the big worry was the Russian and the Cold War.

Paul Young said...

Although I'm not at all convinced the Human Deception Hypothesis explains events of 1947...James Carrion's article certainly pinpoints the utterly depressing start point of when internal factions of (supposedly) democratic nations, such as UK and USA, unilaterally decided it was totally acceptable to lie to its citizens, the vast majority of its government personnel and even its armed forces top brass,during maritime.
No doubt it has always been the same...the "little people" are left in the dark... but the creation of LCS and JSC was the turning point where even elected politicians were left in the dark...the point at which the tail really started to wag the dog.Like I said...utterly depressing.

As regards to the HDH though,
My question to James Carrion...

If you are correct and the whole UFO flap was a psy-op against, firstly, Axis Powers and then the Warsaw Pact...why the resistance to "disclosure" now?

James P Carrion said...


Disclosure is a loaded term. What exactly is to be disclosed? If you are an ETH proponent than disclosure would mean the Government fesses up to extraterrestrial visitation. If you are a HDH proponent, then disclosure would mean the Government fesses up to fabricating UFO events and pushing UFO mythology in the process.

And who exactly would disclose? In other words, what agency or agencies ultimately are the keepers of the secrets that are to be disclosed? The GAO couldn't squeeze the Roswell secrets out of the US Air Force and no one bothered to ask, where they even the right agency to direct the investigation against? Friedman and company got thrown a MJ-12 bone and they jumped on it like a rat on a cheeto, spending all that time being misdirected and in the process trying to squeeze out disclosure of an organization that did not exist.

Just from the last few comments it is apparent that there is no common ground and no framework to hang disclosure on. cda thinks it is laughable that Roswell is a pivotal case when in fact it is the mother of all UFO myths. Craig calls the HDH and ETH hypotheses themselves mumbo-jumbo and tries to deflect to Leon Davidson's CIA theories but offers no alternative hypothesis of his own.

It is difficult to discuss the merits of a hypothesis when no one wants to first frame the hypotheses to begin with and to discuss their merits based on supporting evidence but would rather just voice their opinions.

I have shown through documented research that there is an agency that other researchers can focus their investigative energies on - a real agency, not some made up one, but one that actually had as its prime directive to perpetrate deception operations. Davidson's theories blaming the CIA and the GAO's investigation of the Air Force were targeting agencies that played supporting and not starring roles if strategic deception operations are to blame for the 1946 and 1947 UFO waves. That is not my opinion - any military deception scholar would tell you the same thing.

I spent years of research to come up with the supporting evidence that the Ghost Rockets were a human deception operation but UFO believers and debunkers alike don't even bother to read it and wave their hand with dismissal. I can't even get one UFO researcher to publicly debate me on the Ghost Rockets, not even Stanton Friedman.

I have spent an equal amount of time researching the events of 1947, a large part of that time in Government archives. When I finally release my free book on the Roswell Deception, I am sure it will generate a thousand more comments on blogs. But blog commentary is just veiled opinion and the serious debate will come down to articles like Sparks which points out through logical arguments any perceived flaws, and then counterarguments can be made to those points. The importance of focus can not be understated. cda laughs off Roswell and tries to direct the conversation to Rendelsham. That is like asking a Civil War historian to argue the Battle of the Bulge.

Finally, there is a difference between Psy-Ops and Deception. Psy-Ops are meant to influence the mood of your enemy. Deception is designed to get your enemy to perform or not perform an action. Just wanted to point that out because the two are often used interchangeably when they are in fact two distinct things.

Thank you for your question.

Brian B said...

Well, I certainly believe the US military is more than capable of developing purposefully focused strategic and tactical deceptions. I think we already have historical proof of that.

We also know the US government has, at times, sought to deceive people including its own citizens.

No doubt deception has been used to encourage and discourage both citizens and other branches of government or military to hide something from someone.

I'm sure it's been used in ufology and we have some proof of that already. People ask why, and while we don't have the exact answer it's not hard to understand that it has to do with hiding something.

If the US and its allies developed radical technology that has changed the paradigm of flight mechanics, then this alone may explain why deception has been continues to be used to this day.

As for the 1947 wave, we simply don't know. We don't have any documents to prove conclusively that the early years of saucer sightings were deliberate deceptions.

However, if you posses a technology that others don't, and it's radical enough to put you 50-100 years ahead of your enemies, I'm sure you wouldn't just tell everyone about it. If it flys with the kind of propulsion we are talking about, I can see why the military might send mixed messages as means of deception.

Tell people UFOs don't exist; if they see one of your vehicles claim the witnesses are nuts. Then push the idea that maybe these things are from outer space. Then tell people once again they don't exist while feeding them the ETH as deception.

Paul Young said...

Thanks for your reply James.
It raises many more issues in this fascinating subject of deception warfare.

James..."Disclosure is a loaded term. What exactly is to be disclosed?"

My question was too vague.
To clarify, I was referring to why the "Roswell" aspect of the 1947 deception (if the HDH is correct) is still so obviously being lied about, (Mogul balloons / crash dummies, etc), 70 odd years after the event and almost a quarter of a century after the dissolution of the USSR. If it was all a deception then the job is done...mission accomplished.

Other highly sensitive events of that era have had practically a full disclosure. The Tube Alloys, the Manhattan Project, the decoding work at Bletchley Park. We know who did what...where they did it...the problems that arose and how they overcame them. The success of these works are worn as a badge of pride.

With Roswell it's completely different.
"It was a mogul balloon, now buzz off"

Why the resistance to disclosure if Roswell was ONLY an exercise in deception against an enemy that fell 25 years ago.

Jack Brewer said...

In her (in my opinion) outstanding book, 'Operation Paperclip', Annie Jacobsen addressed Roswell FOIA efforts. Paraphrasing, she wrote something to the effect that she suspects current FOIA officers don't know where to look for answers; it's likely not a sweeping cover-up as much as buried history, at least at this point.

I tend to agree with that and interpret it to dovetail with the above comments of James Carrion. The right agencies have to be asked the right questions submitted to the right offices and all that if anything substantial is to ever turn up via FOIA.

And, yes, Paul, it is indeed fascinating. I find the art of deception in warfare to be a deeply intriguing topic. I also find it to be poorly understood within the UFO community, making the work all the more important of those willing to competently and seriously address it.

James Carrion said...


Let's say for argument sake that Roswell was part of a strategic deception against the Soviet Union. Deception plans do have limited lifespans and timelines until the set goals are met and let's further hypothesize that the goal was to reduce the possibility of Russian aggression during the early cold war years.

Unlike scientific projects like the Manhattan Project and Tube Allows where the cover stories only had to be maintained for a period of time before publicly revealed (can't deny the obliteration of two whole cities in Japan) there is no reason for deception planners to do the same. Doing so would only reveal sources and methods that the planners would like to milk for as long as they can. Code breaking has a similar rationale for non-disclosure and is the reason why the WW2 Ultra secret did not become public knowledge until many decades later and the Venona Project was only revealed to the public in the 1990s after it also outlived its operational usefulness.

With Roswell and the whole UFO myth, there is no reason to disclose if it still serves an operational purpose, Brian pointing out just one modern day operational use for using UFOs as cover for high tech weapons.

My estimation is that when Roswell was resurrected by Friedman and Company in the 1980s, although having outlived long ago its original operational purpose, Roswell was recycled into the modern era, boosted by the MJ-12 disclosures to grow the UFO myth. In other words, the lie was increased because it still had some use, not to mention that revealing the original lie some 40 years after the fact would only create a shitstorm of public outcry.

cda said...

So Roswell was an exercise in deception against an enemy?

Marvellous how the deceptors did it. First they had to construct a balloon-like object plus some sticks and tinfoil that happened to resemble a hexagonal shaped radar reflector. They then hoped this junk would fool whoever found it into thinking it resembled a balloon but was actually something far more advanced technologically.

They would then have to ensure, or hope that, once the balloon was identified, everything would go quiet and that none of the witnesses would speak about it for 32 years and that when one of them finally did so, he spoke to someone who was a strong ET believer, and thereby encourage a zillion other witnesses & 'believers' to come forward and claim they too knew the object was an ET craft that fell to earth. That way, the deceptors could ensure the case would go down permanently in certain people's minds as an ET visit to earth (but only after the original event was long ignored and forgotten about by the public).

And who were these deceptors trying to fool? Why the Russians of course. That is why it took place on New Mexican soil, very near to the place where a few Russian atomic spies had been working during WW2 and shortly after. But for some reason these Russians (and their leaders in Moscow) were never interested, nor fooled at all. The only ones who were fooled were those ET-happy Americans who took to writing endless books, articles, and TV shows about it from 1980 onwards. What deluded fools they were and still are.

And the skeptics? Another deluded lot, putting two & two together but always getting five (or was it three?). These included some AF intelligence agents in the 1990s, who produced two massive reports, in response to a congressional request, both of which turned out to be complete fiction.

James Carrion said...

For all of the Roswell ET proponents, a challenge...

cda said...

James Carrion writes (elsewhere):

"So I challenge all who want to prove that Roswell was an alien event to FOIA away for the real organization that would have protected the Roswell secrets - an organization for which real records exist, somewhere in the bowels of a classified government archive. FOIA for all of the records of Joint Security Control – the real “MJ-12” - not the fake one that sent more than one Ufologist down a deep dark rabbit hole to nowhere."

This is another variation of the idea that the reason no records can be found for the "Roswell is ET" thesis is that researchers have been wasting their time looking in the wrong archives. Had they instead searched these JSC records they would, or might, have indeed found the great Roswell revelations, be they genuinely ETH or merely an "exercise in deception" by the US military.

I suggest Mr Carrion tells the one person he anonymously castigates over the whole Roswell/MJ-12 fiasco, to perform these FOIA requests. This is Stanton Friedman. Friedman is the chief person who went "down a deep dark rabbit hole to nowhere". I have no special knowledge of the JSC or their activities, but I can virtually guarantee that if Friedman, or anyone else, actually FOIAed the JSC for the 'Roswell records', and obtained all of them, that they would end up with absolutely zilch, except for a great big egg on their faces.

But do not let my remarks deter Mr Carrion from trying the FOIA himself. What does a simple Brit know about these things anyway?

Afterthought: If a forger, such as an ET zealot or an expert in deception, can plant a fake document (the Cutler-Twining memo) in the National Archives, perhaps by some VERY clever methodology, he could also have planted a fake one in the JSC archives. Perish the thought! Have you thought of this possibility, Mr Carrion?

The variations are fascinating and endless, aren't they?

Mr. Sweepy said...


Good points. There is one point that is overlook about archive documents and secret operations. This is if you research the CIA for airplane services or companies in Wikipedia, you will find over a dozen front companies they created or were associated with in over 60 years. Some were legit private service air cargo carriers and did some side jobs for the CIA to being everything in between.

The point is, if the CIA did this for air operations why couldn't they also set up a private front storage company for Roswell and all the other UFO crashes? The CIA could even legally rent or lease land on military bases. Then hide this storage company behind a series of false front companies, trust, off-shore companies and more legal ownership tricks. This is what I would do if I wanted to cover up the most important secret in the history of this country. Guess what Mr. Carrion, if this was true, I bet my house that you couldn't get all FOIA info you requested.

AT best, we are lucky to get a trinket, a few crumbs of real data Mr. Carrion. Hiding information is really easy if you tell someone they will be dead and buried out in the desert if you say anything back in 1947. Now it's about NDA's, fines and threats of long prison terms. Either way, if the so-called secret group(s) don't want you to know, you won't.

CDA, you are correct about the fake documents. If the JSC want us to see something that is fake they can make it happen.

David Rudiak said...

James Carrion wrote, (1 of 2)
With Roswell and the whole UFO myth, there is no reason to disclose if it still serves an operational purpose, Brian pointing out just one modern day operational use for using UFOs as cover for high tech weapons.

So after some now 70 years of "UFO deception", the targets of this deception, presumably the Russians and now maybe the Chinese, are so pathetically incompetent that they STILL can't figure out they are being had, despite having military and intelligence gathering capabilities the equal of our own. This is yet another version of what I called drooling idiot theory (DIT).

This again goes to the question I posed originally, what good is "UFO deception" if the other side has no reason to believe there is some "other" technology other than human technology, namely U.S. technology? Again the question goes unanswered, because the thesis itself is ridiculous. The ONLY way "UFO deception" might serve a purpose is if the deception target has VERY good reason to believe UFOs are real and not made by any power on Earth.

And again note the handwaving by James Carrion and Brian Bell about those supposed U.S. "high tech weapons" that the great "UFO deception myth" is supposedly providing cover for. Can JC or BB name even one such high tech weapon, past or present, that might pass for the unconventional shapes and performance characteristics of reported UFOs? Or can they provide even one document that shows the Russians, or Chinese, or whomever, were tricked into believing it was an alien space ship, or whatever?

As I also said before, when the U.S. was actually overflying the Soviet Union with spy balloons and U-2's, the Russians were NEVER fooled that these were anything other than conventional U.S. spy devices, because they looked and performed just like human conventional flying technology. The U-2, e.g., flew higher than a conventional jet plane, but it still looked exactly like and flew like a jet plane--no high accelerations, right-angle turns, hovering, going straight up, hypersonic speeds, etc.

The reason we have actual documents stating that UFOs are not made by any power on earth is because UFOs look and/or perform in ways that are quite unlike human technology. But obviously, the Great Deceivers were so amazing clever, that they were somehow deceiving even our own people using some sort of magic, hence Air Force documents like the Twining memo or AFR 200-2 stating that UFOs are completely unlike anything we make and were to be studied for national security reasons and their technology. Or were people like Twining also part of the Great Deception, wasting Air Force resources gathering intelligence on UFOs just so we could continue to fool the Rooskies?

And still no explanations how the Great Deceivers have carried out "UFO deceptions" all over the planet, perhaps millions of them. Are the penguins in Antarctica also targets of the Great Deceivers? How did they pull off the Father Gill close encounter in Papua, New Guinea? What purpose did that serve? To scare the cannibals there? How about the giant triangles over Belgium 1989-90, witnessed by thousands including over 100 police, picked up on NATO radar, jets scrambled, etc. Was Belgium now the enemy? Or the 1977 Colares, Brazil UFO uinvasion, with UFOs zapping civilians with beams, emerging out of the Amazon, etc., all heavily documented by the Brazilian military. Now Brazil was the enemy that had to be deceived?

There is a HELLUVA LOT more to what Carrion keeps calling the "UFO myth" than just the ghost rockets, Kenneth Arnold, and Roswell. How could the Great Deceivers perpetrate such a MASSIVE hoax all over the planet for the last 70 years?

David Rudiak said...

(part 2 of 2)
Rather than trying to promote "the UFO myth", any decent student of UFO history knows that various government agencies were in REALITY trying very hard to convince the public they were NOT real. This very much included Kenneth Arnold and Roswell. Has Carrion heard of Gen. Ramey's weather balloon explanation for Roswell, or aware that afterward the Army and Navy staged multiple weather balloon demonstrations to try to convince the public that the balloons explained the recent flying saucer epidemic. Obviously this was a clever bit of reverse psychology by the Great Deceivers, knowing that the Russians would take these public efforts to debunk the saucers as "evidence" that the saucers were instead real and the U.S. had recovered one.

Apparently our A-bomb was not a sufficient deterrent to Russian aggression. No, we had to convince the Russians we also had alien technology. That'll have Stalin quaking in his boots! Never mind it would probably take decades if not centuries to back-engineer such technology, so hardly an immediate threat to the Russians, even if they were convinced we had captured same.

My estimation is that when Roswell was resurrected by Friedman and Company in the 1980s, although having outlived long ago its original operational purpose, Roswell was recycled into the modern era, boosted by the MJ-12 disclosures to grow the UFO myth. In other words, the lie was increased because it still had some use,

Of course, JC never explains exactly what this "use" might be. Again, he is imposing drooling idiot theory that the Russians just could never figure out that they were being conned by our Great Deceivers into believing UFOs were alien spacecraft as cover for our always unnamed "high tech weapons".

not to mention that revealing the original lie some 40 years after the fact would only create a shitstorm of public outcry.

So after also claiming at the beginning: "The Human Deception Hypothesis (HDH) unlike the ET Hypothesis (ETH) or other hypotheses for UFOs is subject to the scientific tenet of falsifiability - that is to prove a theory, you have to be able to disprove it as well," it turns out JC is saying it ISN'T falsiable. The Great Deceivers (or their now grandchildren) will never admit to such a UFO deception scheme because it is 1) still "useful", 2) will create "a shitstorm of public outcry", or 3) "Doing so would only reveal sources and methods that the planners would like to milk for as long as they can."

Or in other words, any real documentation that would actually prove this great UFO deception scheme would remain highly classified while the Great Deceivers continue to "milk" it against nincompoop enemies like the Russians, who will never ever figure out they are being had.

Mr. Sweepy said...

Very good! One other point. There was a story about the Russian's having their own "Area 51". This is where supposedly they have a underground stable of captured UFO's. I am not going to judge this as being true or not. However does this mean that the Russian's stole your so called HDH and ET Hypotheses and trying to pull a deception campaign on the USA? No, I don't think so but I would love to here was Mr. James Carrion really thinks about who is trying to fool who.

Mr. Carrion, Did you get these ideas from the comic magazine - Spy VS Spy?

James Carrion said...


It is obvious to me that you and I are talking apples and oranges here.

The UFO phenomenon is not one large monolithic subject that has to be studied as a whole. It can be broken down into discreet timeframes and discreet locations.
So let’s start with the 1946 Ghost Rockets. Show me proof, any proof that the Ghost Rockets where high performance alien space vehicles that violated the laws of physics. Even the eyewitness anecdotal reports of that time do not confirm this. I suggest you read my free book Anachronism before trying to argue that timeframe with me.

It is also obvious to me that you know nothing about how strategic deception works. A deception operation is meant to influence your enemy to perform an action or an inaction at a very specific time. You have the benefit of 70 plus years of UFO hindsight to try and make your argument but at the time Ghost Rockets made the news in 1946 and Flying saucers made the news in 1947, the Russians did not have that benefit. They were novelties that had to be taken seriously lest they turn out to be a new American weapon of war.

In addition, you deny facts. Let’s take for example the fact that two weeks before Kenneth Arnold made the news, newspapers around the world reported on a Top Secret, Anglo weapon, possibly airborne that was greater than the atomic bomb. The story was “leaked” to the press and confirmed by the scientists who worked on the project and which they told newspaper reporters was ongoing. The scientists were real, the Top Secret Project was real.

The only inconvenient fact was that the Project had nothing to do with airborne objects and was terminated in 1945, yet the real scientists who worked on it were promoting it as an ongoing project. Yet neither the American public nor the Russians would have known that because the real Top Secret Project was not declassified until a decade later. To the Russians it could have very well been a Top Secret project that was creating incredible airborne technology and lo and behold just two weeks later, Kenneth Arnold’s sighting seemed to confirm that, and lo and behold just two weeks after that one of them possible Top Secret airborne objects has crashed in New Mexico. That is how deception is perpetrated. You make the fantastic seem plausible based on the information on hand at that time.

If you don’t believe the deception planners of Joint Security Control could pull of this smoke and mirrors magic that created the UFO wave of 1947, then that just shows your complete ignorance of deception techniques and paraphernalia. Read The Deceivers to see what incredible feats of deception were pulled off during World War 2.

Your estimation that UFO deception could only work if the enemy thought they were alien craft makes absolutely no sense, especially when viewed in the discrete timeframe of 1947. You throw spy planes flying over Russia as proof of your Drooling Idiot Theory and have already made the leap from the 1940s into the 1950s. That’s a whole decade after the very specific deception operations of the summer of 1947 had already met their operational goals.

The problem with your argument is that you want to throw all UFO sightings throughout the ages into one large bucket that you can take out on a whim when trying to prove your point. If I explain one sighting away as deception you will reach into your bucket and pull out another and state “well what about this one?” Your bucket is a bottomless pit of anecdotal stories. Yet I never claimed to try and explain every UFO sighting as deception – that is just the way you hear and see it with your UFO belief blinders on.

So in a nutshell, if you want to argue how deception doesn’t make sense to you, then lets first agree to discuss discrete timeframes and events, otherwise it is just going to waste both of our times and we will both just be drooling idiots to each other.

Mr. Sweepy said...

Mr. Carrion,

You mentioned WWII often in your many most. Answer this. In 1942, there was an event known as the Battle of Los Angeles. Here is the Wikipedia page for this:

Clearly this wasn't Japanese attacking. This was not a US airplane that was not properly identified. So the final three choice are: A. balloon, B. A deception plan, C. a UFO.

One would think shooting down a slow moving balloon or weather balloon would be easy with over 1,400 shells of all types being shot at a object. A slow and easy target.

Last was the UFO story. If the President of the United States said it was a UFO along with Hap Arnold, this would freak out the whole country. So it was not likely that this was a deception story.

So it was decided that the balloon story would have to do. The point being if there was a deceptive plan, it was afterwards and to keep the truth hidden.

Yes, Kevin's supporters side of this argument can pull out stories for ever. The differences is we have more evidence that you do.

Last, you still did not answer one question I had about J. Edgar Hoover. Was he just friends with Colonel Goldbranson? Or was this a security meeting between the two. Or Hoover and Colonel Goldbranson work on a deception plan together? Or did Hoover simply use Colonel Goldbranson to pass on information about Roswell? The truth is, you cannot give a answer to which one of these possibilities it could be because there is absolutely nothing to prove anyone of the four scenarios.

cda said...

The affair has become a fierce debate between someone who believes and promotes the idea of a 'grand deception' (James Carrion) and the ETHers such as David Rudiak, with the skeptics looking on in partial amusement.

The ghost rockets over Scandinavia have surely been laid to rest long, long ago. This does NOT mean, of course, that each and every 'rocket' sighting can be explained, but the general consensus is that they were natural phenomenon, i.e. meteoric in origin, for the most part, with a good bit of early post-war hysteria and fear of possible Russian operations at the Nazi centre in Peenemunde, thrown in. Psychology played its part too.

Yet we now have Mr Carrion proposing that these rockets were part of some 'grand deception' by the US Joint Security Control. These were to fool the very people who were originally thought, by the Swedes and even some US attaches in Sweden, to have caused the mystery rockets in the first place.

A case of going from one extreme to the other!

Meteoric fragments were actually found on one occasion (in case you didn't know).

So in answer to your question to DR, Mr Carrion: I am very certain that these ghost rockets were not, repeat not, "high performance alien space vehicles that violated the laws of physics". They were not low performance ones either. And trying to link either these or the Roswell affair in New Mexico a year later with the activities of the JSC is just plain silly.

What about the Chiles-Whitted 'rocket' of July 1948? I recall one early UFO 'expert', a certain Henry J. Taylor, telling us that this object had human pilots in it. These were American, of course, part of some secret 'grand deception' game.

Mr. Sweepy said...


Another great set of points. There is another point that was overlooked by Mr. Carrion. These so-called rockets, by his belief, were based on the German V-2. The V-2 rocket was more a terror weapon that strategic with a maximum range of 200 miles. The German's were lucky to hit their intended target and usually had more than a 5 mile radius of success. On top of this, they were difficult to shoot or launched because of the fuel mixture. Further every V-2 had to be transported on trailers on roads. This would have scared the citizens of either side of the Iron Curtain into thinking one side was going to start WWIII. Talk of deception? This would have been insanity.

So Mr. Carrion, how come there were no witnesses to the transportation, set-up, and blastoff of the V-2 copy rocket? And don't say there wouldn't be witnesses. This would have been a monumental event to every citizen in all the towns that the transporter drove through. OR... one of your deception theories happen?

Second, everyone of these so called "Scandinavia Ghost Rockets" landed in different lakes or ponds. Wow! Even the expert German scientist couldn't get this kind of accuracy. Mr. Carrion, how could this happen?

Please explain. We are sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for answers to our many questions.

Walter Bosley said...

I'm curious to see Carrion's book when it comes out, having sorta been obliquely in the perception management biz for a little while.

James Carrion said...

The wait is over Walter. You can download my book The Roswell Deception from

Zak MacKracken said...

Mr Randle

Carrions new book is out for free... would like to read a review by you: