Sunday, June 30, 2019

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Retrospective, AATIP, Robert Friend and Admiral Wilson

This week’s show wasn’t quite what I thought it was going to be, nor did it include Nick Redfern. Through no fault of Nick, nor really anyone, circumstances sort of dictated that we postpone Nick’s show until later in the summer. He was fine with that and it worked out for all of us. You can listen to the show here:

I used the opportunity to reflect on the past shows and what was going on in the
LTC Robert Friend
world of the UFO today. And I used the opportunity to mention the passing of retired Lieutenant Colonel Robert Friend. From everything that I have heard or found about him, he was a true American hero.

I had received some questions about the interview that had been published with Admiral Thomas Wilson. That interview and transcript came from Dr. Eric Davis, who, had mentioned at one point that the Del Rio UFO crash was real. Although I have looked into the Del Rio crash before, and into the background of Robert Willingham who is the sole source on this, I just don’t believe the tale is grounded in reality. To me, Davis’ belief in the Del Rio crash suggested he might not have been as deeply embedded in the inside as was thought. You can read about this here:

And some of these links will lead to other links as well so that a complete picture can be seen if you wish to follow it to its conclusion.

Because the AATIP is still a hot topic, I touched on it as well. Most of that has been discussed in the last month on the blog. That goes hand in hand with the Unidentified program on History.

Next week, while I’m in Roswell at the Festival there, we’ll have a “best of program.” The following week, we’ll be back with a new show.


John's Space said...

One point about the Wilson memo issues is that the 1997 meeting was between Adm. Wilson and Steven Greer and Edgar Mitchell. The meeting between Wilson and Davis occurred much later in 2002. The memo is claimed to be the documentation of their conversation which related to attempts by Wilson to obtain access to a USAP which Greer had claimed existed. So the discussion of the Corso book was in reference to the 1997 meeting. Also, Wilson didn’t mention Del Rio to Davis in the meeting per the notes so any inaccuracy there really doesn’t discredit the information Wilson provided.

What is notable here it that is have details of Wilson’s search for this program and that he was ultimately denied access. What is new that he did learn more that the Greer side had claimed publically. He learned that it was a reverse engineering effort, he learned which contractor was prime on it (however Davis was not told), and he learned that we did have recovered alien technology. This is all new. If seems that document was shared among a small group of UFO researchers for years and it seems that the copy made public was from the files of the late Edgar Mitchell.

First the evidence points to this being a real Davis document. It hasn’t been denounced as fraud by Davis and so it would make sense Davis is the author. So the possibilities are Davis made up the meeting, the Davis is on the level and Wilson fed Davis a lot false information, or it is a true statement of Wilson adventure. I favor the latter as it seem to be the most reasonable in that why would Davis lie to is close colleagues make up such a story and I don’t see a vice-admiral wasting a hour of his time telling a tall tale to a scientist. So if this what happened it appears like the people controlling the project decided to provide just enough information to satisfy Wilson curiosity hoping he was just go away. Given that his career was on that line he did.

I do differ with Dolan’s position that it is the private contractor who really controls access. He takes the position that it was the contractor who blocked a senior J-2 officer from access. Anyone who understands SAPs knows that the government program office security is who makes these calls. The contractor recommends but it the program office that decides. What Wilson doesn’t reveal or know is the identities of the control group in the government. This has to exist for this sort of project to exist and get funded.

Has anyone heard form Adm. Wilson on this? Davis is no comment. Hal Puthoff is no comment because of security commitments. While this falls short of the “Sagan Criteria” it looks be real. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Adm. Wilson doesn’t deny the meeting with Davis occurred in order to protect himself and the government’s interests.

KRandle said...

John's Space -

My point was that Davis, who apparently wrote the document, had, in the past, talked of the Del Rio crash as if it was a real event. If it was not, then Davis' credibility is called into question here. If he didn't know that Del Rio was a hoax, he clearly was not inside of any sort of organization that knew the truth. I said nothing about Admiral Wilson in this context, was only suggesting that the Davis document is somewhat problematic.

Second, Wilson has denied the meeting took place, or that the notes reflect the reality of the meeting. In other words, Wilson has not endorsed the transcript as valid. There is a real problem here and I don't know the answer yet.

I think all of that was discussed by Steven Bassett and me on my radio program, and I elaborated on it just this last week.

John's Space said...

If the document is accurate it doesn’t present either Adm. Wilson or Eric Davis as being inside the purported government UFO organization. If just claims that Wilson after meeting with Greer and Mitchell tried to get accessed to it and in an effort to manager the problem, Wilson was given an overview of at least one part of it but was denied formal access. Subsequently five years later there was a meeting arranged between Wilson and Davis in which Davis was told part of what Wilson had learned. That fact that Davis is in the dark about many thing doesn’t really refute what was in the document. There was no mention of Del Rio in the document for example and even Wilson seems to take the MJ-12 story as true. So the fact that Del Rio was a hoax might well be something that Davis didn’t know.

You have made strong case against both Del Rio and the MJ-12 document which has been much discussed on the blog. However, it is reasonable to assume that if Roswell and other crash retrievals are real that there is some organization that controls these activities. It is possible that people on the outside might call it MJ-12 based on popular lore given they don’t know its official designation or where in government structure it is located. At the time of the 1997 meeting it seems all of these people were working on rumors and popular information rather than official knowledge. I’m not surprised that Wilson now denies telling Davis some for obvious legal reasons.

Sugarraytaylor said...

For me, this would be a hell of a lot more exciting if it didn't have Steven Greer's name attached to it.

Brian B said...

Some of the problems could be cleared up if Davis would just come forward and endorse the notes as his.

His silence is perplexing and worrisome in that his notes are being discussed everywhere in ufology, and especially promoted by Dolan in his live podcasts as “authentic”.

I have no issues with Wilson denying it if only Davis would confirm, but he doesn’t seem interested.

So this is just another dead end being promoted as “disclosure” when it can’t be verified as true.

As I’ve said on this blog many times, government corporations control the secrecy behind USAPs and for good reason — the public, Congress, and most of the military aren’t read into these programs and never will be. You can’t FOIA the information either.

As a side note, while impossible to verify, it does bring into question whether S-4 was indeed once the research location for such vehicles as Lazar and Uhouse claimed.

There are at least two other people that have claimed to work there who get very little attention. One is said to be the former head of security (now retired) at S-4, and a man who claimed he was a USN Seal who served as a guard at S-4. His story was captured a few years after Lazar’s when he claimed he and three others at S-4 attempted to whistle blow as Lazar said he once did.

This guard independently confirmed what the former head of security at S-4 claimed about 10 hangers and 9 craft.

What’s interesting is the Davis notes mentions that Wilson was told there was only one craft being evaluated by an aerospace contractor, and that it was thought to be something ancient rather than recently “retrieved” from a crash.

Interestingly this guard also claimed a
craft had been brought into the hangers and he was told it was an ancient machine discovered by excavation.

Now, is this all a psychological game of misinformation? Or do these tiny threads tie together in some way?

CommanderCronus said...

Brian B: Your comment hits to the heart of what I consider one of the great paradoxes of the UFO crash disclosure issue. Specifically, if the government did possess flying saucers and was trying to re-engineer them, one would expect it to become a science in it’s own right; a unique field of study with its own concepts and terminology. Among all the supposed whistle blowers who claim to have inside knowledge of this subject, why have so few provided technical details and related vocabulary with regard to the science of UFO reverse engineering? To my knowledge, the only individual who has offered up any of this is Bob Lazar. That said, the Lazar story has it’s own share of credibility issues, and like many other lurid conspiracy tales, it appears to lead nowhere.

Larry said...


In a private communication, Eric Davis explains that he is refraining from making any public comment on the Admiral Wilson memo because he still holds a security clearance and still has active non disclosure agreements in effect. He will not comment on the authenticity or non-authenticity of a document that purports to discuss classified information.