Sunday, November 03, 2019

UFOs and Edward Snowden


Normally, I would have put a mention of the following on the post about my interview with John Greenewald. We did talk, briefly, about Edward Snowden and his appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience, podcast #1368. Snowden had said that he had searched for UFO related documents but that he had found nothing. While this might be an extraordinary claim that suggests there is nothing hidden in government files about UFOs, it presumes that Snowden had access to
Edward Snowden
everything and that nothing is hidden away in databases or archives to which he had no access.

Here's why I can say something like this. The most obvious example is the Navy videos that were released after Snowden had made his document dump. Clearly there seems to be a UFO component here, but the Navy didn’t refer to the Nimitz incident as anything to do with UFOs. They talked about UAP. That might be why Snowden found nothing and this alone undercuts the importance of his revelation about UFOs.

But that’s not the only problem. Many UFO documents were copied to the CIA and the NSA as reported by both Jan Aldrich and Brad Sparks. This means, if nothing else, if you were searching for UFO related material, and if you used the correct search parameters, you should have found something. Anything. There were UFO documents out in the classified areas that would suggest some importance to them.

We learned, in 1986, about something called Moon Dust. The documents, first found by Robert Todd during a FOIA search, revealed this classified project that had a UFO component to it. I found four cases in the Project Blue Book files that were labeled as Moon Dust. Granted, they were crappy cases and I think they all had terrestrial explanations but the real point is that they landed in Project Blue Book, which had the mission of UFO investigation.

Once the Moon Dust name was compromised, it was changed. Todd, among others, attempted to learn the new name but were told that even the name was classified. That told us that Moon Dust had survived the compromise and that the code words for the mission had changed.

All of this suggests that Snowden’s effort to learn about UFOs, alien visitation, and investigation of UAPs, should have found something. This would not be something Earth shattering, but probably more of the Moon Dust type of material that we all saw years ago. Maybe it would have compromised the new code name but the point is, there should have been something.

Since Snowden found nothing, it is more than likely he didn’t have access to the database that contained that information. There are networks inside the government, computer networks that are not accessible to every computer in the government. Some are separated so that those who do not have a need to know can’t just logon through one database and end up seeing something they shouldn’t.

I’m reminded of Robert Dean’s claim to have seen a top secret cosmic document that he said contained information about a UFO crash retrieval in Europe. He said that he had been in the command post, or somewhere, on night duty. He was having trouble staying awake when an Air Force officer dropped The Assessment on his desk, telling him that it should keep him awake. The Assessment outlined the retrieval operation.

This story is bunk because no officer is going to provide anyone a top-secret document without being assured that he was cleared to see it and that he had a need to know what it contained. Highly classified material just isn’t passed round like that. It has to be signed out and then signed back in. Records are kept.

No, I’m not suggesting that Snowden should have found some reference to The Assessment, or to the MJ-12 documents for that matter, but that highly classified documents are carefully guarded to prevent compromise. They are compartmentalized. They are separated and the more sensitive the material, the more access is restricted. If we are talking about the proof positive of alien visitation, then that information would be among the most restricted and the most difficult to penetrate.

BTW, I’m not suggesting that either The Assessment or MJ-12 are real. There would be no mention of them in any classified database because both are hoaxes and therefore were not classified. But other information about UFOs or UAPs, would have found their way into classified databases. We know this because, as noted, some of that classified information has been declassified after Snowden’s document dump. Had he found something about them, then his conclusion, or speculation might have told his something. That he found nothing tells us something else.

It is not outside the realm of possibility that the UFO material was contained in databases and computer networks that were beyond Snowden’s capability to access. He found nothing because he couldn’t find the right network to compromise. It suggests that the CIA, the Air Force, the DoD, or the Navy might not store this sort of thing in a database. Those who need it might just have to travel, physically, to the point where the information, in hard form is stored to review. Such an extreme step would, of course, prevent a computer breach compromise. I don’t know that. All I’m saying here is that Snowden’s revelation might not be important because he couldn’t access the right network.

9 comments:

Daniel said...

Kevin:

-> I’m reminded of Robert Dean’s claim to have seen a top secret cosmic document that he said contained information about a UFO crash retrieval in Europe. He said that he had been in the command post, or somewhere, on night duty. He was having trouble staying awake when an Air Force officer dropped The Assessment on his desk, telling him that it should keep him awake. The Assessment outlined the retrieval operation.
This story is bunk because no officer is going to provide anyone a top-secret document without being assured that he was cleared to see it and that he had a need to know what it contained. Highly classified material just isn’t passed round like that. It has to be signed out and then signed back in. Records are kept.<-

*

This is correct of Robert Dean’s claim, I've heard his claim, and a dam good speaker I might add. But didn't Robert Dean say, he had "TOP Cosmic Clearance" Thus, the Assessment must have been signed out, and then signed back in!? One would think!?....?

Unknown said...

Kevin -

"It is not outside the realm of possibility that the UFO material was contained in databases and computer networks that were beyond Snowden’s capability to access. He found nothing because he couldn’t find the right network to compromise."


That's exactly the reason why the infosec uses compartmentalization systems such as [1]"Sensitive Compartmented Information" (SCI) & "Special Access Program" (SAP) although one of snoweden's leaks revealed that NSA still uses the UMBRA Classification for highly sensitive intercepts, you know, the same one as the blacked-out NSA Top Secret UMBRA UFO documents from 1980.

[1] https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-us-classification-system.html

Louis Nicholson said...

I do not automatically dismiss Robert Dean's claim because "no officer is going to provide anyone a top-secret document without being assured he was cleared to see it etc." Military officers are human and as such, there is always a possibility that some of them may deviate from the rules and/or law. I held a top secret security clearance when I worked for the U.S. Department of Justice many moons ago. Everyone in my office held such a clearance but not all of them adhered to the strict rules and laws involving classified information.

This is not to say that I believe Robert Dean's claim, I am neutral on the subject, but I just hate it when people say certain things did not happen because "no [insert someone's title] would ever do such or such." That's like saying no police officer, lawyer, judge or politician would ever do something illegal or unethical, and I, during my many years as a lawyer, have personally seen many, many instances of such conduct by several such persons. All people do not do what they are supposed to do. I heard a person who is very closely associated with your radio show (a former police officer) say that he did not believe in Roswell only because Jesse Marcel broke the chain of custody when he took the debris to his home and showed it to his family. While that may have been unprofessional on Marcel's part, that doesn't mean Roswell didn't happen. Many, many criminal cases are lost in court every day because a police officer involved did something, either intentionally or mistakenly, in violation of the defendant's legal rights, but that does not automatically mean the defendant was innocent of the charges.

I have no doubt that you, Kevin, never broke any rules concerning the handling of classified material, but lets get real, its highly doubtful that every single military officer that has ever lived has adhered to all the rules like you. The mere fact that you would not have given Dean the classified material does not mean this other officer did not do so therefore making Dean a liar. There may be other reasons why Dean's claim is not legit, but that one is wholly insufficient in my view.

KRandle said...

Louis -

I do not believe Dean's tale for a variety of reasons, including the nonsense about how he saw The Assessment. And I will insist that a high ranking Air Force officer would remove a document from the vault in an attempt to keep a sleepy Army NCO awake. Violations of security regulations do happen, but this one just isn't in the cards. Had he happened to see it on someone's desk, had he been in the vault and looked at it there, fine... but to have someone give it to him as if it was common reading material simply does not fly.

Louis Nicholson said...

Not to beat a dead horse, but even the President's National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn, a retired Army General, inappropriately shared classified information.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trumps-national-security-adviser-shared-secrets-without-permission-files-show/2016/12/13/72669740-c146-11e6-9578-0054287507db_story.html

So the revealing of classified information does happen. We don't know whether the officer in Dean's case specifically went into a vault to retrieve the document for Dean to see or whether the officer already had the document out for a legitimate purpose and casually (but inappropriately, if this event actually happened), say to someone he knew and who also had a top secret cosmic clearance, "hey take a look at this before I return it into the vault." I think this is possible.

KRandle said...

Not to beat a dead horse but it is not the same situation. He didn't dip into the vault, remove a highly classified document and drop it on the desk of an NCO, telling him to read this. It'll keep you awake. This scenario is ridiculous on the face of it... and no, I don't need more examples. McGeorge Bundy revealed a classified code name when a photographer took a picture of him while he was holding an inappropriately covered classified document.

And no, I do not believe Dean's story.

Unknown said...

Regarding Dean's claims, those who have already commented saying that Kevin's criticism of his story of how he was shown the alleged Assessment does not convince them that Dean was lying or that the story was false. Perhaps you should read one of Kevin's old articles detailing the in-depth investigation into Dean's claims, where he submitted two false documents to try and back his story up.

https://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2005/11/exopolitics.html

Dean was a very engaging and likeable guy. Like many in the field, his story and claims began to change and grow as time went on, much like his friend Clifford Stone, who first showed up on the scene as quite a useful document researcher, but within a few years was claiming to have been involved with almost every UFO crash case on record, and became such close friends with the Aliens that he can't do an interview without starting to cry over their plight at the hands of the human race. It's ridiculous.

Everyone loves a good story, and I would love these things to be true. I believe there is a highly unusual source behind the UFO Phenomena, having seen one myself up close and in broad daylight. But in 20 years of following this stuff, the only sure thing that is reliable in this field is that the only thing we have are people making claims, usually with questionable backgrounds.

Adam S. said...

"But in 20 years of following this stuff, the only sure thing that is reliable in this field is that the only thing we have are people making claims, usually with questionable backgrounds."

When opening the doors of perception, one invites, the messengers of deception.

couldbebetter said...

Having seen that particular Joe Rogan episode with Edward Snowden I thought that someone
could be using him to make the "nothing to see here" claim. The best UFO claim that I wish
would be looked into further is that of USAF 1LT Jacobs who's team filmed an Atlas missile
test firing and unbeknownst to him had picked up a flying disk shooting a shaft of light at
the missile. His CO was a MAJ Mansmann who claims 2 (CIA?) men took the film and the two
AF officers were told never to talk about it. I have seen copies of some personnel files
of each...MAJ Mansmann even headed an Intelligence Library at one point. Both officers
believed the flying disk to be extraterrestrial. The incident likely took place in 1964,
and was separately reported as having been filmed at Port Aguillo as reported in a book
that said a film of the incident was recorded there. As it turns out, an OER for LT Jacobs
mentions that he set up a filming site at Port Aguillo. (He may not even know about the
mention of the incident having been published in a book in the 60's.) I have no doubts
such incidents occur and are classified, especially if they are suspected as being related
to Aliens...and involving their interest in our nuclear weapons.