Thursday, June 03, 2021

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris and Trinity.

In what I think of as a special edition of A Different Perspective, I had the opportunity to speak with Dr. Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris, authors of Trinity: The Best Kept Secret. The program was an hour long, as usual, but we didn’t get to half the questions or comments on my list. You can listen to the show here:

Paola Harris

We did get into the background of the story and those of you who visit here, know the tale. Two young boys see something crash, see the occupants of the craft, and then witness the lousy attempts at retrieval by the Army. It is clear that both Vallee and Harris accept the tale as authentic, with Vallee going into detail at how well youngsters can recall an event without embellishment. Of course, this overlooks the fact that the interviews were conducted, not with children at the time of the event, but with men decades later. It is clear that there are areas of contamination.

Much of the detail seemed to be reminiscent of the Roswell crash including the claim that lightning might have brought down the craft, about the Army recovery, and finally the descriptions of the aliens as looking like Jerusalem Crickets. This was the description provided by Frankie Rowe based on her experiences in the Roswell case. To me it was one more proof that the tale told isn’t so much about an observation by the boys but a borrowing of details from the widespread literature from Roswell.

I did ask Vallee about his use of the Aurora, Texas, UFO crash of 1897 as part of the history of UFO sightings. I mentioned that I had been to Aurora before all those others arrived, that I had interviewed some of the long-time residents who still lived there, and that two, count them, two, histories of Wise County had no mention of the crash. I have written about all that on this blog.

We did get to the Socorro UFO landing. I asked about his support of one symbol over the other, that Zamora himself had drawn, but again, the conversation diverted to other matters. Trivia? Sure, but it suggests something about the scholarship in the book.

There were many other matters as well. In the end, however, it was clear that there were only two witnesses who said anything about the crash who could be thought of as eyewitnesses. The third witness interviewed for the book, Sabrina Padillo, hadn’t even been born in 1945 to see the crash, but did inspect the alleged crash site in 1960.

Rather than go on, I’ll just point out that Vallee and Paola said that there was no documentation, the physical evidence that was talked about didn’t exist in today’s world, other than a couple of pieces that, when analyzed didn’t demonstrate an extraterrestrial origin. In other words, it was metal that could have been manufactured on Earth but that didn’t rule out an extraterrestrial origin, according to the analysis.

I will mention a fourth name, Bill Brophy, who talked about his father having flown over the crash site in 1945 (Exon and Roswell springs to mine here). According to Brophy, his father saw the two boys on the scene, the burned area and possibility the crashed object. But, again, the information was second hand and I have been working with those in Alamogordo in an attempt to verify both Brophy’s story and try to find any of those others assigned to the base at the time. Given it was 1945, and you can presume that nearly everyone assigned there would have been at least 20 in August 1945. It means the likelihood of finding anyone still alive is remote.

Next week, I’ll be talking with Kathleen Marden, who has an updated or expanded version of her book, Captured!. It deals with the Barney and Betty Hill abduction and we’ll see where it goes. 


Bryan Sentes said...

"something about the scholarship in the book"... You said it.

Louis Nicholson said...

Good interview as usual. It was a shame there wasn't enough time to go into more. I think Dr. Vallee defended his position very well given the evidence he had. That is not to say he (or Ms. Harris) persuaded me that the incident took place as reported, but I am not persuaded, as you seem to be Kevin, that it did not. Maybe it did or maybe it didn't, just like maybe Roswell was an extraterrestrial event or maybe not. As Stan Friedman use to say, "I put it in my grey basket." In fact, I put ALL these UFO events in my "grey basket" because there just isn't enough evidence to scientifically prove what any of these sightings are or even whether, in my humble opinion, people are actually seeing something tangible in the sky or are being induced or manipulated somehow to artificially see something.

John Steiger said...

Louis: First, both San Antonio and Roswell are crashes, not sightings. There is evidence on the ground.

Second, believe as you wish with regard to the veracity of San Antonio and Roswell, but a sizing up of the evidence between the two is akin to comparing an ant hill to Mount Everest ...

Louis Nicholson said...

John: I understand your first point. However, where is the "evidence on the ground" of these crashes? The alleged crash debris from the San Antonio crash was determined to be made of same materials found on earth. This does not mean it did not come from another planet, (other planets may have at least some of the same materials as earth), but it is not scientific proof of anything.

I do not completely understand your second point. What definitive evidence is there to "size up?" The eyewitness testimony? Now if there was radar evidence, as we have in the recent Navy sightings, at least we have another evidentiary nugget to put in the bucket, but still not definitive scientific proof.

I just learned about the NY Times article which claims the pending UFO intelligence report will conclude it cannot say definitively that the 120 cases it looked at involve alien technology BUT ALSO CAN'T RULE IT OUT. If the report says this, it is one heck of an admission from our government in my opinion and it pretty much mirrors my position at this point.

Larry said...


I'm glad to hear you are working with people at Alamogordo. I've read the Harris/Valee book and one of the pieces of the puzzle that looks to me like it could be followed up on has to do with the tower that the craft supposedly crashed into. As a pilot, I'm sure you know that a common method of radio navigation is to home in on non-directional radio beacons with direction finding antennas. I think the radio tower that was supposedly hit was used as a non-directional beacon by air traffic in the Rio Grande region of that time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't used as a reporting point for entering into the traffic pattern for Stallion Army Airfield inside White Sands. Supposedly, the remains of the tower were torn down sometime in the mid 1950s, so cannot be inspected. What I'm getting at is that sectional aeronautical charts of 1945 should show the tower's location, frequency, and call sign. If it could be determined who owned the tower, it would probably be possible to figure out whether or not records show it suffered an interruption of service on the day in question. There might even be records at Alamogordo tower logs. That would be an independent verification of whether something did or did not hit the tower that day. I tried to find a copy of a 1945 Socorro Sectional Chart on line but could not. I wonder if someone physically located at Alamogordo (maybe at an air museum) could get their hands on that information?

John Steiger said...

Louis: Thank you for your response. Regarding my first point, you are quite correct in stating: "The alleged crash debris from the San Antonio crash ..." -- I have a hard time accepting it too.

My second point is intended to be much simpler than you are making it out to be. What I meant by "sizing up" is to compare the extensive amount of literature (including blogposts!) devoted to Roswell vis-a-vis the rather slight amount (at least so far) devoted to San Antonio ... of course, that may change I suppose now that Dr. Vallee and Ms. Harris are on board.

George Kanakaris said...

Jose Padilla is still alive. Is he willing to be interviewed?

Alex Foyle said...

Thanks a lot for bringing up Bill Brothy. Do you know which Amazon book review Vallee and Harris refer to, in which Brothy recounted his story? Very unprofessional that Vallee and Harris didn't even source this review in their book, let alone follow up and research this Bill Brothy, truly shoddy investigation, sorry. Thanks for any hint on where to find the Amazon review from Bill Brothy.

KRandle said...

Alex -

The book was written by Reme Baca and can be found here:

The comment was written by Bill Brothy:

My Dads B-29 Bomber Group, the 231st at Alamogordo AAF in New Mexico recovered this Spacecraft Aug 15-17 1945, in 2007 I was interviewed by Col Wendelle Stevens about this Crash and Wendelle surprised Me by telling Me He had been at 2 UFO Recoverys at Kingman AZ May 18 and May 22 1953, Bill Brophy.

I have been able to confirm that the 231st was at the Alamogordo Army Air Field at the proper time and they engaged in all sorts of training including in B-29s. I was unable to find proof that Brophy's father was there, but then, I was unable to locate any rosters or other documentation that would have established that. Doesn't mean he wasn't there but the documentation at Holloman AFB no exists. It was just too long ago.

BTW, Stevens claims about the recoveries at Kingman are inaccurate. I looked into this case and found that the main witness is unreliable... as he, himself said, about telling stories when he had been drinking.

Alex Foyle said...

Thanks a lot, Kevin. So they didn't even spell Brophy right in their book? Pffff. No wonder I couldn't find Bill Brothy, as he is spelled in Trinity. Why didn't Valle & Harris try to find Mr Brophy? I'm really stunned by the lack of basic research for this book. Maybe there is a way to find the interview Stevens did with Brophy? Did Stevens leave his archive intact? Agreed on Kingman. Greetings from Germany.

Alex Foyle said...

Hi Kevin, You probably saw the latest headlines re the alleged Trinity crash in 1945, like this one for example Now Vallee & Harris claim that they interviewed the son of Lt. Col William Brothy (sic). Do you have any update about an interview with the son of Brophy or can you confirm that it actually took place?

Alex Foyle said...

Hi Kevin, I just found several letters from Brophy's son William P. Brophy to the editors of Flying Saucer Review. Search for Brophy here In these letters the son claims that his father flew over several additional UFO sites, which seems implausible. Some other things he says there raise some red flags for me too. So I will not buy the "expanded" edition of "Trinity" in which Mr. Brophy apparently claims that his father also witnessed this alleged 1945 UFO crash.