Sunday, September 25, 2022

Lue Elizondo and Two Crashes on the Same Day


While I was reading the material posted to the Anomalist website (, I followed a couple of links and came to a story headlined, “’Roswell Was Real, Claimed Apollo 14 Astronaut, Elizondo Suggests 2 UFOs Crashed That Day.” (No, the headline is not suggesting that Elizondo was an astronaut… I think they needed a semi-colon rather than a comma to make it clear.)

That headline intrigued me because of the suggestion that two UFOs had crashed on the same day. This was the theory spun by Stan Friedman in an attempt to validate the Plains of San Agustin crash site identified by Barney Barnett. Friedman’s theory was that the UFOs had collided with one falling to the Brazel (Foster) ranch near Corona, New Mexico, and the other coming down farther to the west, on the Plains.

I do not believe there was a crash on the Plains in July 1947, and the reason that theory was ever considered was that the original information, provided by Jesse Marcel, Sr., had no mention of alien bodies. Barney Barnett, however, who lived in Socorro, New Mexico, did tell of something falling on the Plains and that he had seen the bodies of an alien flight crew. Ruth Barnett kept a diary for all of 1947, and there is no mention of anything like that in her written record. I have explored this in the past, at length, and you can read more about it here:

The point is, given the information I have uncovered and the investigation that I conducted, there was no evidence substantiate the dual crash aspect of the Roswell case. In one of the more notorious tales told, Gerald Anderson, said that he was on the Plains that day and saw the crashed craft and the alien creatures. Friedman continued to support Anderson long after it was clear that Anderson lied about his involvement. You can read more about that here, but you need to scroll down to find the relevant information about Anderson:

Don Schmitt at the Anderson crash site with the Plains behind him. In the far distance is
the location of the bat cave where scientists were working beginning on July 1. They would have 
seen the crash had there been one, but none of them did.

To me, if Elizondo was, in fact, saying that two UFOs crashed that day, it suggested he was not on the inside because two UFOs had not crashed that day. The Barnett tale had been single witness with no corroboration, and in fact, scientists who were in the area at the time and who had a perfect view of the entire Plains, did not corroborate the story. Given all that, it seemed that Elizondo might not have been the insider that he claimed.


And you knew there would be a “however”…

I wanted to know exactly what he had said, and I wanted to know where he had said it. According to the story in the Roswell Daily Record, Elizondo said, “Before I was part of AATIP, I had no idea about Roswell, other than that there was sort of some alleged crash at some point and some farmer found debris – but during my time with AATIP, there was some very interesting anecdotal information that suggests there wasn’t just one crash, there may have been two crashes, and that somehow it may have been related to some sort of testing that was being done at the time at White Sands, and that the material was recovered.”

He didn’t add much in that article about what he knew, only that these were things that he had heard from those who had been around since the days of Project Blue Book. This is exactly the same sort of thing that Don Schmitt, Tom Carey, and I have heard for many years from people who were actually in Roswell at the time or who were in the Army Air Forces when the object crashed. Brigadier General Arthur

Arthur Exon

Exon, for example, provided us with these same stories about what he had heard when he was assigned to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in 1947. Exon even talked about the recovery of alien creatures and what happened to the bodies once they had been moved out of Roswell.

My original purpose here was to suggest that if Elizondo was talking about two crashes on the same day, that would tend to undercut his importance to the UFO investigation given that there was only the single event. But the newspaper story doesn’t say anything about two crashes on the same day, only that there were two crashes. And, he says that these were anecdotal tales he had been told, not that he had seen documents or classified studies which changes the importance of what he said. Only that he had heard these things from others who he suggested would have known the truth.

This turned out not to be much of a chase for accurate information. I guess you could say that it was a “nothing burger.” I was intrigued by the headline that was inaccurate and reading the whole story gave the correct information. It does, however, show that Roswell is still alive in the UFO world.


John Steiger said...

Kevin: While I realize the headline " ... [s]uggests 2 UFOs Crashed ...," is it not distinctly possible that Elizondo & Co. are confusing the number of crashes with the number of crash sites? It wouldn't be the first time that an important fact became distorted as it was "whispered down the lane."

KRandle said...

John -

I'm not sure that it matters because the headline is inaccurate. Elizondo was talking of two crashes as opposed to two crashes on the same day. Remove the same day aspect and it changes the discussion. Besides, the newspaper article makes it clear he was repeating what he had been told by others rather than observations of documents and evidence seen by him. I just thought it an interesting little tale of how the headline becomes, sort of, click bait, but the story makes it clear (to quote Karl Kolshak).

Paul Young said...

One thing that is certain about Luis Elizondo is that he was a big help in getting the mainstream media to finally start taking the subject seriously.

Getting those Navy videos published has been game changer.

Linţă Petruţ-Valentin said...

If there was only one crash at Roswell, then where were the bodies of the aliens found, in what place were they discovered? Jesse Marcel and Mac Brazel said that they only discovered metal remains, while other witnesses of the collapse say that they also saw the bodies.

This means that the bodies were found in another place more distant. Wouldn't it be more logical to believe that there could have been two collapses at short intervals? It is known that many UFO sightings were reported during that period.

Lemurian said...

Here ´re some infos about the Crash in the Plains:

Lemurian said...

Here´re some and very important informations about the Crash in the Plains of San Agustin:

John Steiger said...

LP-V: One crash at Roswell, but multiple crash sites is the best developed theory of the case at this point. Jesse Marcel and Mack Brazel were at the Foster Ranch debris field where they found metallic debris along with a parchment-like substance, wood-like I-beam shaped material, and even translucent thread-like material. There were also two (2) bodies found at the Dee Proctor body site about two (2) to three (3) miles from the Foster Ranch debris field. And then, in addition, the main body of the spacecraft with three additional crew -- two (2) deceased and one (1) alive -- were all located at the impact site approx. 30-35 miles away from Foster Ranch. This impact site was in Chaves County and much nearer to Roswell, while the Foster Ranch was in Lincoln County and nearer to Corona, NM.

I would suggest that you undertake more reading and research about the Roswell UFO crash of July, 1947. There is a ton of material about the case on this blog, plus numerous books on the subject, including the recently published Understanding Roswell by Kevin Randle.

RedTornado2008 said...

I have always thought there was only one real crash and that some of the debris landed on the ranch with the craft near by. That would explain a lot of things such as the newspaper story about a flying disc being captured. I never thought it was two separate crashes like some researchers do. Then again I could be wrong.

John Steiger said...

Lemurian: The information you refer to above has already been answered and refuted by Kevin in the Wednesday, April 14, 2021 entry on this blog: Did Herbert Dick Lie About Being on the Plains of San Agustin? Rather interesting that you neglected to mention this in your comment.