Coast to Coast - UFO Fragments

 

First, an annoyance. For those interested in such things, I was doing a video lap, which most call channel surfing, when the term UFO caught my attention. Fox News was doing a segment on the UFO video footage from the Navy, showing the original Tic-Tac video from a couple of years ago. The hosts then discussed possible solutions mentioning that this all began with a new radar system, suggesting some sort a technical glitch as one possible solution. I have no problem with that. It was John Roberts who then suggested that it might be a bug on the lens… which led to a joke about computer bugs and real bugs and then a giggling response. We take a step forward with serious interest in UFOs and then we have two talking heads making fun of a topic they know nothing about. Just listening to their “insightful comments,” it was clear they knew nothing about UFOs and didn’t care to learn anything about them. Is it any wonder that so many of us have so little faith in anything they tell us?

Second, and much more important is a thought I had when talking about the possibility of alien debris in the hands of the government or private industry. We all think in terms of recovered space craft, but what if the material is just a small piece seen to come from a UFO. Such is the case from Crownsville, Maryland, on November 13, 1957.

According to the Air Force report, two hospital employees, whose names were redacted in the Air Force file but who are William A. Zick and J. Caswell, saw a round object, pink in color and as big as a house, hovering some 500 to 2000 feet overhead. In another document, contradicting the first, the size was described as a disk about three feet in diameter and the altitude of about a thousand feet. There was an explosion described as more of a popping sound and the UFO began a descent with a swinging motion like that of a parachute. Both Zick and Caswell said the object “grew smaller” as it descended. One small piece, the size of a cigarette pack, fell on the hospital grounds and was recovered. One of the witnesses said that as he picked up the object, the part that touched his hand disintegrated. Dr. Richard Jansen, of the hospital staff, saw the fragment and said that a metallic ash clung to the debris and he thought it might be magnesium. The residue was placed in an envelope.

Intelligence officers at Fort Meade learned of the debris and responded, roping off the area before checking for radiation. The fragment was wrapped and confiscated by the Army. M/SGT Slate was the man who transported the material to Fort Meade. The official Blue Book conclusion is “Insufficient for a Scientific Analysis.”

Why?

Because the fragment disappeared. Somewhere between the hospital and the lab it vanished. Maybe it just vaporized in the bag. According to the Air Force file, they couldn’t do anything without the sample to test, noting that the bag was empty when they received it at the lab.

Interestingly, however, there is one document that suggested the object was an accidently released parachute flare. The only problem is that the flares do not disappear and the parachutes are much larger than three feet in diameter. Had this been a viable explanation, the parachute should have been recovered. The documents can be found in the Project Blue Book files and follow here.

The Entire Blue Book File.

Moving on, I will note here that according to Ray Stanford, he had collected a number of very small, metallic fragments on the landing site of the UFO in Socorro in 1964. In the attempt to have them analyzed, those fragments were also, somehow lost. I covered this, in depth, in Encounter in the Desert. Both Ray Stanford and Ben Moss have written about this episode as well in their books about the Socorro case.

These weren’t the only small samples recovered from UFOs. A magazine writer in Brazil received several fragments that that were provided by an anonymous source who claimed to have seen the explosion of some kind of craft near the beach. Most of the debris fell into the ocean, but some landed on the beach. The chain of custody from the beach to the writer is broken because no one was ever able find the person who picked up the metal.

Some of the sample was submitted for analysis, first in Brazil and later in the US by APRO leaders Coral and Jim Lorenzen. The original findings were of a magnesium purity that was not obtainable by terrestrial industry. The Lorenzens supplied one small fragment to the Air Force, but the Air Force accidentally destroyed it during their analysis. They requested another sample but the Lorenzens said no.

The Condon Committee later claimed that magnesium of equal purity was available through Dow Chemicals in small amounts, but to obtain that purity was a complicated, time consuming, and expensive process. They had no explanation how someone in Brazil could have gotten any of the Dow samples. Here is a link to a scientific paper that covers the analysis of the Ubatuba sample:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237309319_On_Events_Possibly_Related_to_the_''Brazil_Magnesium

These are just a few examples of small pieces of strange material that came into the possession of the US government. It just means, rather than an alien ship, what has been examined are just tiny bits of debris though their track record on this is rather poor. The government, whether the Condon Committee or the Air Force, seems to lose the samples more often than test them. Such tests would provide no hints about propulsion, electronics, or other aspects of interstellar travel, but could provide hints about the reality of alien visitation. At any rate, the history of these events has been well disguised in the past.

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Don Ecker and the Current State of UFOs

 

This week I was lucky enough to talk with Don Ecker who has been around the UFO field for a very long time. Many will remember him as one of those behind UFO magazine and the host of a number of radio shows dealing with UFOs. Of course, you can listen to the our discussion here:

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/45054526

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/45054531

We did talk about a wide range of topics. One of the interesting subjects was Dr. Eric Davis and Admiral Thomas Wilson who supposedly had a secret meeting a number of years ago. Don added an interesting perspective to this tale. For those interested, you can read more about it here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2020/09/x-zone-broadcast-network-joe-murgias.html

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2020/06/dr-eric-davis-and-admiral-thomas-wilson.html

I did write more about Davis, but much of it dealt with Davis’ claim that the Del Rio UFO crash was real. If you wish to pursue this line of thought, just type Eric Davis into the search engine and you’ll probably learn more than you care to about Davis and his claims about Del Rio.

Don and I also delved, slightly, into tales of stolen valor and those who claim Vietnam service when it is clear they never served in Vietnam. That, of course led us to Cliff Stone and his somewhat tall tales about his experiences in Vietnam. True, Stone did serve in Vietnam but not the four tours he claimed and it is clear that he was a clerk and not an infantry soldier. Some of that service seemed to be in the theater of operations but might not have been actually in Vietnam.

Don and Vicki Ecker and a pal.

In the second show, we enter the realm alien abduction, including possible explanations for it and some observations about it. This moves us to Rendlesham Forest and the information provided by Jim Penniston and John Burroughs about their experiences and possible hypnotic and chemical regressions. Terry Lovelace and his experiences are also discussed. I outlined those in UFOs and the Deep State.

In the two shows, we tried to cover some of the aspects of the UFO field as it exists today. We both have military back grounds and both had high-level top-secret clearances so that we can speak was some authority on how those things work. We provide some insights that should be useful to those who wish to engage in additional research. I try to ensure that there is enough information for those others to begin their work.

Next up are Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris to talk about their book, Trinity: The Best Kept Secret. If you have questions, put them in the comment section. I’ll review them and try to get them answered, though I have many questions myself.

UFOs, USOs and the US Navy

 

Just last Friday, May 14, another video taken by Naval personnel was released into the public arena by filmmaker Jeremy Corbell. It shows an object, a black, somewhat indistinct sphere, as it flies near the USS Omaha. At the end of the video, the object drops into the ocean. The Navy has confirmed the authenticity of the video, meaning that it was recorded by Navy personnel on July 15, 2019 in the Combat Information Center on the ship using FLIR which is Forward Looking Infrared. There is a lot of data available about this sighting, and many others involving Navy ships. George Knapp has been onto of this as well. You can read George Knapp’s interview with Jermey Corbell here:

https://kfor.com/mystery-wire/new-video-from-uss-omaha-shows-unknown-aerial-sphere-vanishing-into-ocean/

George Knapp

What I have been unable to learn is if this sighting, as some of the other, equally interesting sightings, was strictly on the CIC equipment or of there were sailors who saw the object without the aid of a digital display. There have been cockpit photographs taken with cell phones that are not limited to video displays but this isn’t really the same thing as the videos.

This latest video ends with the object dropping into the ocean. At that point, it becomes, what is known around the UFO community as an unidentified submerged object or USO.

This isn’t, of course, the first instance of a UFO dropping into the ocean. One of the best documented cases is that from Shag Harbour, Canada on October 4, 1967. A day later, on October 5, 1967, Jim Lorenzen of APRO, called the Condon Committee to alert them of the events that had taken place in and around Shag Harbour. With that, the committee launched their telephonic investigation and it was Dr. Norman E. Levine who wrote the report on what they labeled as Case No. 34, in the North Atlantic and dated as Fall 1967. Levine wrote:

He [Jim Lorenzen] stated that the original report had come from two teenagers and that the Navy was searching for wreckage. No aircraft were reported missing in the area... A corporal of the RCMP [Victor Werbicki] stated that the first report had come from five young people, 15 - 20 yr. old, who while driving near the shore had seen three or four yellow lights in a horizontal pattern comparable in size to a ‘fair-sized’ aircraft... They observed the light while they drove about .25 mi., then reported the incident to the RCMP detachment.

Chris Styles and Don Ledger, two Canadian researchers who have, between them, decades of experience in UFO investigations, provided me with a thick file on the case. According to them, the events began on the night of October 4, 1967, near the small fishing village of Shag Harbour. Something, estimated to be about sixty feet in diameter, with four bright flashing lights, descended to the surface of the water about a half mile from shore.

Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia, Canada

Halifax Herald, reported that Laurie Wickens, with four others, spotted something above and in front of them at about 11:00 p.m. It was a large object that had four flashing amber-colored lights that was descending, as opposed to falling, toward the harbor.

As it struck the water, there seemed to be a bright flash and explosion. Wickens decided to contact the police drove to a nearby town, attempting to keep the object in sight so that he could provide precise information. Eventually parking, all five of the witnesses, Wickens included, ran to the water’s edge when they could see what they would later describe as a dark object floating or hovering just about the water. Now the flashing lights were gone and only a single, pale yellow light that seemed to be on top of the object could be seen.

Wickens then reported the sighting to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. He contacted Corporal Victor Werbicki who initially, wasn’t very impressed with the report. Instead of asking him anything about the crash, Werbicki asked him if he had been drinking but then told Wickens to hang up but to wait by the telephone.

Several other witnesses, some of them thinking that some sort of aircraft had crashed, also called that same RCMP detachment at Barrington Passage. Mary Banks, who was on Maggie Garron’s Point, which is near the harbor, told Werbicki that she had seen an airplane crash into the sound. A third call came in from two women who were about thirteen miles away and who had seen the same thing.  A man, in a fourth call said that he had also heard a whistle and a bang. Although they all talked in terms of an aircraft accident and others mentioned only bright flashing lights, no one suggested that this was a UFO, meaning alien craft.

It was now apparent to Werbicki that something had happened out there. He called Wickens back and told him to meet him at the Moss plant. Three of RCMP officers made it to the shoreline and one of them, Constable Ron Pond, said that he had seen the lights from his car and that he’d seen the object, or the lights, or whatever, dive toward the water. He thought he saw a shape behind the lights which certainly changed the dynamic of the sighting. In other words, Pond saw, not only the lights, but believed those lights had been attached to something solid.

Standing on the shore with the Mounties were a number of other witnesses. These included Wickens and his four friends, and the occupants of a pick-up truck that pulled into the lot. Norm and Wilfred Smith had seen the object in the air before stopping for a better look. Although Werbicki didn’t see anything until Wickens pointed it out to him, all could see the pale-yellow light that floated about a half mile from shore. Through binoculars, they could see that whatever floated on the surface was creating a foaming, yellow wake as it moved. Because the object was in the water off shore, the Coast Guard was notified and fishing boats were called in to look around. Although the cause of the yellow foam disappeared before the boats arrived, they could still see some evidence of its passing. The Coast Guard cutter arrived too late to see anything and by three in the morning the search was suspended for the night.

This is the situation as it stood when Jim Lorenzen notified the members of the Condon Committee.  Levine, in his preliminary statement, suggests that the first reports were made by teenagers and he seems to be suggesting that others saw lights on the water, but nothing in the sky. Levine went on to write:

Two officers [RCMP constables Ron O’Brien and Ron Pond] and the corporal [Werbicki] had arrived about 15 min. later, in time to see the light on the water. It persisted about five minutes longer. Ten minutes after it went out the two officers were at the site in a rowboat; a Coast Guard boat and six fishing boats were on the scene. They found only patches of foam 30 - 40 yd. wide that the fishermen though was not normal tide foam...

The site of the presumed impact was in between an island and the mainland, about 200 - 300 yd. off shore. Apparently, no one actually saw anything enter the water [though I must point out that a number of people saw the object descend to the water, which is, essentially, the same thing]. However, two young women driving on the island reported that a horizontal pattern of three yellow lights had tilted and descended, and then a yellow light had appeared... The RCMP corporal stated that the light on the water was not on any boat, that Air Search and Rescue had no reports of missing aircraft in the area, and an RCAF radar station nearby reported no Canadian of U.S. air operations in the area at the time, nor any usual radar object... A search by Navy divers during the days immediately following the sighting disclosed nothing relevant.

Five days later the Naval Maritime Command advised the project [that is, the Condon Committee] that the search had been terminated. The watch officer read a report from the RCMP indicating that at the time in question a 60 ft. object had been seen to explode upon impact with the water... A captain of a fishing boat that had been about 16 mi. from the site of the earlier reports, reported to the project that he and his crew had seen three stationary bright red flashing lights on the water, from sundown until about 11 p.m. The ship’s radar showed four objects forming a six mile square; the three lights were associated with one of these objects [so now we see that Levine is contradicting himself with radar reports and people seeing the object descend]. At about 11:00 p.m., one of the lights went straight up. The captain had judged that the radar objects were naval vessels and the ascending light a helicopter; he had attached no significance to these observations until he had heard on the radio of the sightings; he then reported the foregoing observations... However, since the position he reported for the objects was about 175 n. mi. from the original site, the two situations do not appear related.

No further investigation by the project was considered justifiable particularly in view of the immediate and thorough search [that had failed to find anything which would suggest that the Condon Committee should be interested in the case] that had been carried out by the RCMP and the Maritime Command.

This shows that the on the scene investigation by the Condon Committee was a telephone call and then a dismissal of the case. This was a case of multiple witnesses, certainly more than just the teenagers that Levine mentioned, and there was a possibility of physical evidence, they declined go to Canada. Levine seemed to believe, or at the very least claimed he believed, that the sightings had been thoroughly investigated by others on the scene, that nothing of interest was found, and that the search had been called off.

Years later, an investigation by Canadian researchers Chris Styles and Don Ledger uncovered not only additional witnesses, a photograph of the object in the sky, but also documentation and testimony from high-ranking Canadian officials. Styles, in writing about the case would say that he had met with a former general who had served with the DOPS section of the Canadian Forces Headquarters. The officer was annoyed with Styles for finding him but did supply some interesting information about the case.

According to Styles:

The story told to me in Ottawa by the Brigadier contained all the verifiable bits and earlier partial stories of ships sitting over a submerged U.F.O off C.F.S. Shelburne’s government point. The Brigadier’s source was [sic] men who were loyal to him that were commandeered by NORAD and the navy to play the role of identification team if they found something physical. Apparently, they did and according to the Brigadier the men claim that ‘There was no doubt.’ It was not a conventional aircraft or spacejunk [sic] originating from either 1967 superpower. They told their regular Canadian C.O. that ‘There was activity down there.’ In fact, incredibly they say that there was a second craft. In the Brigadier’s own lingo, “It was standing nines for the damaged saucer.’ The basic outline of the story ends when a russian [sic] sub enters the then 12 mile offshore international limit. The small flotilla sails toward the intruder to offer challenge. This is after a weeks [sic] observation by sonar and T.V. remote over the U.F.O.’s resting place. It is at this point that both U.F.O.’s [sic] begin moving under the water back towards the Shag Harbour area. Once they clear open water in the Gulf of Maine they surface and fly away. The Brigadier closed our meeting by stating that he doubles I will find any paperwork on this operation in Canada.”

That Styles and Ledger were able to uncover the documentation and testimony from the event suggests that this was something that the Condon Committee should have done as well. It happened on their watch, would have provided them with a very interesting case that hinted at the extraterrestrial, and met the criterion for an investigation with the exception of it happening in Canada. Even with that problem, there were American military forces involved, and the scientists could have arrived before the conclusion of the incident, but they were content to ignore it as a prank by teenagers.

Condon had said, in various meetings and to various groups, “I wouldn’t be satisfied with anything other than actually getting a vehicle, with or without occupants, so under my control that I could take it and exhibit it to something like this committee so that all of you saw it, or take you to a place where I had it ‘captured’. Anything less than that I wouldn’t believe.”

This meant, clearly, that the observations, regardless of the training, integrity, expertise or ability of the witnesses wouldn’t be sufficient for him. He wanted a vehicle to study, which brings us back to Shag Harbour. The witnesses said the object fell into the harbor. There are indications that he was maneuvering under water which changed it into a USO. And there are indications, based on the research of Styles and Ledger, that the object eventually maneuvered itself out of the harbor and disappeared

This is a singular, or even rare event. As I say, there is a long history of these USOs, and as just another example, a woman, described as 79-years old, said that her father, a Naval officer based in San Franciso, said these were seen all the time. She said that her father showed her a telegram that reported UFOs had been seen entering and leaving the water and was complete with the geographical coordinates.

On April 19, 1957, the crew of a Japanese fishing boat saw two silver objects, about 30 long without wings, descend. They hit the water, creating an area of turbulence. The objects did not reappear.

Which, I suppose brings us back to 2021. We have another good sighting of something unidentified, disappearing into the ocean. We know that a search for wreckage failed, which suggests the object entered the water intact and did not break up. It suggests a transition from one environment, air, into another, water. That transition is not something easily accomplished and suggests a technology that is superior to ours.

This sighting would be even stronger if there were some sailors who watched the UFO with an unaided eye. It would add another chain of evidence to the sighting but it seems this all took place at night with no sailors seeing the UFO other than those watching in the CIC. There must be more to the story here and I wonder what that is.

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Rob Brun Del Re and UFOs: Proof Positive

 

This week I spoke with Rob Brun Del Re about his book, UFOs: Proof Positive. But before we got to that, we talked about other things. One of the first things that came up was MJ-12 and the Wilbur Smith “Top Secret” report to the Canadian Department of Transportation. In it, Smith had suggested that UFOs were alien craft and he had received this information from Robert Sarbacher. You can listen to the program here:

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/44916522

I did point out that Sarbacher had seen nothing himself, but had gotten his information from some other, unidentified sources. This made Smith’s data third hand at best, and might be even farther removed from any source of reliable source. This did lead us into a discussion of MJ-12, which rarely goes anywhere. Proving that I’m not very good at promoting my own work, I failed to mention Case MJ-12, a book that I had written examining the story of MJ-12 and that was heavily updated just a couple of years ago. In Del Re’s bibliography he listed four books about MJ-12 but not mine, which does not contain a ringing endorsement of the whole MJ-12 theory.

Rob Brun Del Re

One of the things that did come up, or rather that I brought up, was the information supplied by Brigadier General Arthur Exon and his discussion of what he called “The Unholy Thirteen.” This was not an official name, or nickname, just Exon’s way of describing the group. The membership of it is at odds with MJ-12 and since we can point to Exon as the source, and the MJ-12 documents have no provenance, Exon’s information is more important.

We did discuss the idea that the book, UFO’s: Proof Positive, provided logical arguments about UFOs but no real evidence, it seemed to me that the title was misleading. Rob’s answer was that he was more interested in providing arguments explaining how the skeptics and non-believers were wrong in their thoughts. For example, he argued that because we can’t travel interstellar distances, it doesn’t mean that another race having evolved on another planet hasn’t figured out a way to do it. While I concede that argument, it needs to be said that we don’t have a way of defeating those distances.

We did discuss some UFO sightings. Roswell, of course, entered the conversation, as did the Phoenix Lights and Shag Harbour. I don’t need to provide a list of my writings on Roswell. I think they’re well know and culminate in Roswell in the 21^st Century. I have discussed the Phoenix Lights on past programs including a long discussion with Mike Rogers about his observations.

Next week, I’ll be speaking with Don Ecker who has a long history in the UFO field and has some very interesting insights into what has happened in the past and what is going on today.

Coast to Coast AM - San Antonio UFO Crash/Harry Reid

 It’s been a wild one this week. Trending on social media lately was the tale of a UFO crash near San Antonio, New Mexico in 1945. The story is that two youngsters, searching for a lost cow, heard a loud rumble, saw a flash of light and then a cloud of dust and smoke. You can read the whole story here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-san-antonio-ufo-crash.html 

They approached that area, saw the downed craft and three small, thin creatures.  They told their parents, who returned with them and saw the craft but not the aliens. Eventually, the military did arrive and cleaned the area and removed the craft but not before the boys managed to take samples of the debris. Jacques Vallee and Paola Harris are coming out with a book detailing this story. I’m skeptical of aspects of the case but want to see what the investigation has turned up. I will note here that pictures of two pieces of the debris have been published on the Coast-to-Coast AM website. You can see those objects here:

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/photo/ufo-crash-remnants-ii-photo/

Don Schmitt mentioned to me that he had spoken to Reme Baca a number of years ago. According to Schmitt, the crash had taken place in 1947 and on the Plains of San Agustin. It was later that the story evolved to San Antonio, NM, and to 1945. You can listen to Don’s discussion here (in the first segment):

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/44778844

Also gaining traction this week are a couple of statements by former Nevada senator Harry Reid. He is reported to have said, “I was told for decades that Lockheed had some of these retrieved materials. And I tried to get, as I recall classified approval by the Pentagon to have me go look at the stuff. They would not approve that. I don’t know what all the numbers were, what kind of classification it was, but they would not give that to me.”

I need to make it clear here that Senator Reid did not see the debris himself, and, although he has been to Area 51 a number of times, he saw nothing to indicate that alien spacecraft were housed there.

Curt Collins

Curt Collins reported Senator Reid clarified earlier remarks about recovered debris by saying, “I’ve never believed Lockheed had anything in that regard, even though a lot of people believe that — I don’t.” As to whether any UFO fragments are stored away in some other government or contractor’s warehouse, Reid is doubtful: “I never heard of anything, other than some conspiratorialists. So, I don’t think that they’re credible that they’re things from outer space.”

However, I’m reminded of Senator Barry Goldwater who talked of a blue room hidden at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base where much of the recovered material was stored. According to what Senator Goldwater said, on many occasions, when he approached Air Force General Curtis LeMay about permission to visit the blue room, he was told, “No, and never ask me again.” I have a letter from Barry Goldwater sent to Kent Jeffrey in which Goldwater confirms that information. 

For those worried about the authenticity, Kent Jeffrey gave me the 
original letter rather than a copy. I have it still.

These stories go back for decades and while we have had hints about the level of secrecy, it is only recently that we have seen how high that secrecy extends. When Jimmy Carter was the president-elect, he attempted to learn more about UFOs and asked then Director of Central Intelligence, George H.W. Bush, about UFOs. Bush told Carter that he was not yet the president and refused to provide that information. I explore that in UFOs and the Deep State, providing the details of that refusal and how such things are managed by the Deep State in Washington D.C.

Now we look forward to the release of the UFO/UAP report scheduled for next month, though I just heard it has been delayed, which is no real surprise. I have little hope that we’ll learn something new about UFOs, or that there will be any exciting revelations. I look for it being Condon 2.0, which is just another attempt to kill interest in UFOs by suggesting there is nothing to them. It is just an appeal to authority that doesn’t answer any questions we might have.

X-Zone Broadcast Network - Don Schmitt and a Variety of UFO Topics

As usual, when I get together with Don Schmitt, we have a wide-ranging conversation about many aspects of UFOs. I began the program complaining about the latest outrage in the magazine world when they write about UFOs. A long comment on that follows this posting on this blog.

Don Schmitt. Photo copyright by Kevin Randle

The topics on the program included the San Antonio UFO crash of 1945. Interestingly, Don related that he had spoken to Reme Baca a number of years ago, suggesting that, at first, Baca had set the crash on the Plains of San Agustin. He said that when Baca mentioned the Plains, Don tended to tune him out. I certainly understand that. We have found very little to suggest that anything happened on the Plains in 1947 and that the tales all came back to Barney Barnett. You can listen to the whole show here:

https://www.spreaker.com/episode/44778844

Although no researcher ever had the opportunity to interview Barnett, who was the source for the Plains UFO crash, we both had the chance to speak with Barnett’s boss, Fleck Danley. Don said that Danley, when asked for a date of the conversation about the UFO crash with Barnett, thought that Barnett had said something about 1950. When I spoke with Danley, he seemed to indicate that it was 1947, but then, in the course of the conversation, I realized that I could get Danley to say whatever I wanted. He didn’t have a firm grasp on the situation and I spoke to Danley before interviewed him.

We did speak about the late Len Stringfield, crediting him with putting discussions of UFO crashes back on the table. Prior to that, the subject was nearly taboo in the UFO community. The blame for that was Frank Scully’s Behind the Flying Saucers, which mentioned three UFO crashes including the one near Aztec, New Mexico. That report was discredited by J. P. Cahn, and with that came the collapse of any discussions about crashes… until Len revitalized the topic with his research. Len is the one who came up with the term, “crash/retrieval.”

Len Stringfield.

We did tend to dwell on UFO crashes from that point in the conversation. I asked him what he believed were the best of them. Naturally, Roswell was first. Don thought the 1962 crash near Las Vegas was interesting. I said that the Air Force had been right in breaking the case into two parts, with some of this in Utah, and then the explosion seen over Las Vegas. I just am not sure that it still qualifies as a UFO crash.

He did surprise me by saying that the Kecksburg crash might have been a bolide or the return of terrestrial manufactured craft. The evidence does seem to lead in that direction, given what we know today.

We did end up talking about Shag Harbour, which I think of as more of an emergency landing rather than a crash. We both thought the documentation and the work of Chris Styles and Don Ledger are important in understanding the Shag Harbour event.

Next up is Rob Brun Del Re, author of UFOs: Proof Positive. We’ll be looking at the proof and discussing several aspects of the UFO field. 

History, Aurora Crash, Coast Guard Pictures

So, it has happened again. One of those specialty magazines, this one from History, that delves into the paranormal, gets some of it wrong. In the world today, paranormal includes UFO (or UAPs or flying saucers), along with ESP, ghosts, hauntings, the Bermuda Triangle and Bigfoot. I am, of course, somewhat biased. I don’t believe that UFOs should be lumped into the paranormal (and I could probably say the same thing about Bigfoot).

Yes, I was annoyed because they fell back on the Project Mogul explanation for Roswell. I had hoped for something more than the cursory examination given to that and an acknowledgement that Flight No. 4 had been cancelled, but that was too much to expect. For those interested in the long history of this explanation, just type Mogul into the search engine here or look at the long discussion in Roswell in the 21^st Century.

What first caught my attention was the brief little note about the Aurora, Texas, crash of 1897. They noted that it allegedly hit a windmill and published a picture of a “UFO” near a windmill. The picture was taken in Michigan in 1966 and is of a lens flare. Anyone who has been around UFOs or cameras long enough recognized it immediately for what it was. Here is just an example of someone with no knowledge of photography or UFOs, selecting a picture because it fits the general narrative and not concerned with the truth.

Illustration used for the Aurora crash hoax.

The second problem for me was the photograph taken on July 16, 1952, in Salem, MA. For some reason, the Project Blue Book file is labeled as Beverlym (which is, of course, Beverly with a superfluous m at the end) in the Blue Book index but correctly as Beverly on the Project Card. Although it is difficult to read, the card is apparently marked as “unknown.”

But here’s the problem. According to a report in the file, “the results of this analysis indicated that the photo was a hoax. Extensive photographs were taken under similar conditions. Failure of the light source to cast reflections on the highly polished cars below indicated that the light was not outside and it was assumed by the analyst at the time, that the photo was a double exposure and for this reason was a hoax.”

Later, in that same report, it was noted, “It is believed that the photos represent light reflections from an interior source (probably the ceiling lights) on the window through which the photo was taken.”

In another report, the witness (name redacted but is Thomas Flaherty) said, “While working on daily reports I was summoned by Base Photographer (name redacted but is Shell Albert) … who called me to hurry and look at airborne lights. Looking out the window to the North West there appeared to be what was thought to be a quick flash. I actually could not say it was anything. It could have been reflections from passing cars or from the ocean.”

Not exactly the best of corroborating statements.

In another document, paragraph b said, “Three (3) objects glowing bright and then light and disappeared like a light being dimmed with a rheostat. Objects appeared to waver slightly and glow as a light source. [Name redacted but is Albert] could not determine the shape nor formation, aerodynamic features, or propulsion system. [Name redacted] did not see any trail, exhaust, or maneuvers. [Name redacted] did not hear any sound and could not tell if the objects were moving. After ALBERT [failed to redact the name here] developed the photograph, he noted there was a difference in numbers that what he had observed.”

In Albert’s statement to the investigators, he said, “It was an extremely hot day and I think that perhaps some sort of reflection of ground reflections could possibly have accounted for the lights, but in my estimation this is an improbable explanation. The lens was quite dirty and so was the window screen. I cannot in all honesty say that I saw the objects or aircraft, merely some manner of lights.”

I will note here, for no other reason than I found it interesting, that Lieutenant Commander, W. D. Strauch, Jr., wrote, “All personnel interviewed or questions were informed that any information concerning the objects was ‘SECRET’ [emphasis in original] and should not be discussed with any one without the permission of the CO.”

The final note in the investigation, after attempts to duplicate the pictures under various conditions had been made, Colonel Delwin B. Avery wrote, “It is therefore concluded that the authenticity of the picture, taken by the Coast Guard photographer, is open to serious doubt.”

Given the statements by the photographer, the ambiguous statement by Flaherty, and what is the inconsistencies between those statements and what is shown in the photograph, I do not understand why the Air Force would have labeled the case as “unidentified.” Everything in the file, including the witness statements indicate that the photograph is some sort of reflection if not an out and out hoax. Albert’s weasel words in his statement suggest he knew the source of the lights in the photograph and was attempting to avoid directly lying about it.

My point here is that there are better photographs that are not wrapped in the ambiguity we see here. I think the point that has been overlooked is that neither witness has a good idea what was seen and suggest something rather mundane. The statements of those involved seem to take it from unidentified into another realm, one in which we don’t need to dwell. 

The San Antonio UFO Crash

There is now renewed interest in the crash of a UFO near San Antonio, New Mexico, on August 16, 1945. Notice that this is almost two years before the Roswell crash and less than a hundred miles from the debris field shown to me by Bill Brazel. This tale is told by Reme Baca and Jose Padilla, two boys, seven and nine at the time, who heard the crash and would have been the first humans on the scene.

Bill Brazel

The story, as originally told, was that the youngsters had been sent in search of a pregnant cow. The one boy’s father was afraid that if the calf was born out on the range and they didn’t claim it first, then someone else would find it and brand it. They had ridden over the high desert, climbed rocky formations, stopped to have lunch, and then dodged a thunderstorm. As the rain ended and they came out from under the ledge where they had hidden, there was a bright light with a rumbling sound that shook the ground.

The boys headed in the direction of the sound where there seemed to be a cloud of dust and smoke. They found a “giant-sized gouge” that they said looked like heavy machinery had created a road about one hundred feet wide, about a foot deep and maybe three hundred feet long. Through binoculars, Jose could see that the gouge ran up to a ridge where it stopped. At the far end they could see an object that had dug deep into the sandy soil.

As have been found near Roswell two years later, there was a debris field here. Reme said that he picked up a piece of thin, shiny foil, like that from a pack of cigarettes. When he folded it or wadded it, it returned to its original shape.

They worked their way closer, and through the binoculars, Jose saw three, small, creatures. They were moving around rapidly, almost as if they could teleport themselves from one position to another. The motion was described as sliding. The creatures had a buggy look to them. They had big bulgy eyes, had needle thin arms and were about four feet tall. The head was big and when pressed, he compared it to a Praying Mantis. Their skin was a light gray and they were either wearing very tight coveralls or their skin was very tight.

The New Mexico high Desert.

The craft was shaped something like an avocado, with a hole in the side. They tried to get an estimate of the size, deciding it was about 100 feet long. There was a noise coming from the craft. The sound was like that a jack rabbit in trouble would make or maybe like a baby crying.

As they watched it, both said that they got “pictures in their heads.” This seemed to be some sort of telepathic communication. Reme would later say that they didn’t know that these pictures were. Decades later, he said that he still didn’t know what the pictures meant.

By this time, they realized that it was getting late, actually getting dark, and they had to go home. Once there, they told Jose’s father, Faustino, about what they had seen and the humanoid creatures that they called Hombrecitos. Spanish for little men. Faustino said that they would check it out in a day or two.

Two days later they returned to the crash site. Not only were they accompanied by Faustino, but also by a State Policeman, Eddie Apodaca. As the party approached the crash site, they didn’t see the alien creatures, nor, at first did they see the craft. It was as if it had disappeared. But then, as they headed down into the canyon, the object reappeared, “as if by magic.”

It seemed that most of the debris had been cleaned up by someone. There wasn’t much of the wreckage left, other than the craft itself. There were odd pieces dangling all over. The two men told the boys to wait, as they crawled up, inside, through gash in the side of the object. When they came out, according to Reme, the men seemed to have changed, different. They were now more serious.

Faustino warned the boys about telling anyone what they had seen. He said, strangely, that the government calls these sorts of things, weather balloons. He added, “They’ll want this thing back.”

Reme said that it didn’t look like any weather balloon they had seen in the past. And, he wondered about the little men. He wondered what had happened to them.

Two days after that second visit to the craft, the recovery operation started in earnest. A sergeant named Avila, probably Army sergeant, approached those in the Padilla home. He wanted permission to cut a hole in a fence so that they could get their heavy equipment to the crash site. They would be removing the craft and needed to create a better access to the area. An agreement was reached, a road was built and the gate installed.

The youngsters, Reme and Jose, continued their surveillance of the crash site, even after the warning about possible trouble. Now, we learn, based on Reme and Jose’s observations, that the solders weren’t doing such a great job. Rather than collecting all the debris, they buried some of it on site. Other debris was kicked into crevasses and covered over. They watched as a flatbed truck was brought in. Using winches and a crane, the soldiers lifted the craft onto the truck. They covered it with a tarp and even though it was not ready for removal, the soldiers left for the day.

With the site now abandoned, the boys walked up to take a closer look. Jose untied the ropes holding the tarp in place and climbed inside the object. He found something interesting inside the craft and handed it out to Reme. It was very light and cold to the touch. The boys then left, carrying the bit of debris with them.

About two weeks after the recovery operation had been completed and the object removed, four soldiers arrived at the Padilla house. They were looking for something more and asked permission to search the premises. They wanted to know if Faustino had anything that might belong to them, meaning, of course, any metal or other items taken from the crash site. The soldiers were shown to a back room where they searched carefully, eventually confiscating a weather balloon or two and other odds and ends. Yes, apparently, Faustino had found weather balloons in the past and stored them in his house.

But the military didn’t manage to grab the bits of debris that the boys had found. According to Reme, the material was later analyzed but neither the facilities nor the scientists were identified other than one given the pseudonym of Dr. Smith. Apparently, the metal had a high concentration of carbon. Samples cut and polished showed “very weird structures… they look like skeletons of bugs…” You can see photographs of the metal here:

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/photo/ufo-crash-remnants-ii-photo/

Other scientists in other labs were consulted who confirmed the first results, which was that the metal was unusual. They also found that the metal could “transfer heat from one end to the other…a bit like the tiles o the space shuttle.”

But that wasn’t the end of the analyses. Further, and more comprehensive results were published at The Black Vault. The bottom line is that there doesn’t seem to be anything in the metal that suggests an extraterrestrial origin. It was noted that the objects are made of aluminum alloyed to copper and silicon. Isotopic ratios determined for the nickel, copper and zinc compare to terrestrial value but that does not rule out an extraterrestrial source for the material. You can view that information, including the request for analysis by MUFON, names of the scientists and the lab used, here:

https://www.theblackvault.com/casefiles/analysis-two-metallic-parts-purportedly-crashed-unidentified-aerial-object-san-antonio-new-mexico-august-16-1945/

So, where does that leave us?

Looking at this with a critical eye, I have some real problems. First, are the young ages of the witnesses at the time of the event. True, I can see kids trying to get closer and trying to discover what had happened, but the time line doesn’t seem to work out very well. In the interviews, time seems to flow rapidly and then slow down, only to speed up again. Is this a minor criticism? Sure, but it is not the only problem.

I was bothered by the description of the metal as being very thin aluminum, like that found on a pack of cigarettes. This was the description used by Jesse Marcel, Sr. talking about some of the debris he had seen on the Debris Field near Corona in 1947. This information was published long before either of the boys (now men) told their story to outsiders.

Later on, they talked about a metal that could be wadded up and that would return to its original shape. Reme said, “…so I pulled it out from under the rock and kind of rolled it up and folded it up… and it would go back into the same position that it was. So, I took that and put it I my pocket…”

Robert Smith, who had been assigned to Roswell in July, 1947, said one of the sergeants had taken a bit of debris. He told Don Schmitt and me, “It was just a little piece of metal or foil or whatever it was. Just small enough to be slipped in a pocket.”

Bill Brazel said, “The only reason I noticed the tin foil was that I picked the stuff up and put it in my chaps’ pocket… when I put the piece of foil in the box it started unfolding and flattened out.” Again, this information had been well reported before with Reme or Jose mentioned it.

It is also interesting that the boys talk about four military members coming out to the house to search for anything unusual. Bill Brazel talked about four soldiers going out to his house and confiscating the debris he had picked up. Of course, here they failed to find anything but Bill Brazel surrendered what he had found.

These points can be viewed two ways. One is that here was independent corroboration for the types of material found in Roswell. The other is that the boys, when interviewed decades later, had heard about the material found in Roswell and used those descriptions. It is clear in the interviews that they had been reading about UFOs and crash retrievals, based on their answer to some of the questions and their discussions with researchers.

One of the other problems I have is the fairly cavalier way the military treated the crash site. Although there are hints that they had secured the area, they seemed to leave it unguarded at times. No matter what had fallen, if the military had thought it important enough that they would build a road to the site, and put in a proper gate so that they could bring in a flatbed truck, then it was important enough to guard properly. That would mean soldiers out there twenty-four hours a day until the site was cleaned. However, according to the witnesses, that simply wasn’t the case.

The other aspect is the failure to properly clean the site. Apparently, they did send out soldiers to pick up the debris, but sometimes, the soldiers just kicked the material into a crevasse and buried it. There doesn’t seem to be any officers out there, and once again, given the nature of the material, and the craft that supposedly crashed, there would have been a real effort to clean up everything. They would want nothing left behind.

The final problem is the boys being told about weather balloons. Since this was 1945, two years before the Roswell case was “identified” as a weather balloon, this reference is anachronistic. It is out of place because no one was talking about weather balloons being used to explain UFO sightings. This is a major problem.

On a more positive side, a fellow named Bill Brophy said that his father had been a member of the 231^st B-29 bomber group (actually the 231^st Army Air Force Base Unit) at Alamogordo, New Mexico. According to Brophy, the 231^st was part of the recovery operation in August 1945. I was able to confirm that the 231^st was stationed at Alamogordo Army Air Field and had B-29s at the time claimed. This might be a third witness to the crash and does provide a clue about where to look for additional information.

In the end, I’m skeptical about this story. There are too many little things that bother me about it, from the descriptions of the material that match those from Roswell, the knowledge the two witnesses have of UFOs, including talking about books such as The Day After Roswell, and the lack of proper military security. Even if the officers didn’t recognize the craft as being extraterrestrial, they would have seen it as an aircraft of unique design that would require proper security.

For an even more skeptical point of view, you might want to visit Jason Colavito’s website at:

https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/new-book-from-jacques-vallee-claims-evidence-for-1945-new-mexico-ufo-crash

However, there is a book coming out in a month or so that might adequately answer these questions. This is my analysis of the situation now and I look forward to seeing what additional information surfaces.