Wednesday, January 18, 2023

Trinity UFO Crash, UAPs and Jacques Vallee


Once again, I find myself wondering just what in the hell is going on, though I suspect we are being set up. We have heard, in the last few weeks that the new government investigation into UFOs, I mean UAPs, is only going to deal with military sightings and then we’re told that they’re going to look at sightings going back to 1996. There was a story that NASA was going to investigate sightings starting in 1945. And now we learn that the government is going to investigate the crash of a UFO in 1945.

This latest is from Nick Pope who made the claims on Tucker Carlson’s show, mentioning what he called the “Roswell before Roswell.” The problem is that this refers to case that Dr. Jacques Vallee promoted in his book, Trinity: The Best Kept Secret. It is the story told by a man, who in 1945 was a child. He claimed that he, and his child-aged pal, stumbled on the recovery of this avocado-shaped UFO that crashed near the site of the first atomic explosion, known now as the Trinity Site.

Nick Pope at the Las Vegas Crash Conference

Vallee has contributed a great deal to the study of what we now must call anomalous phenomena, which are, of course, the latest in a long list of names that began with flying saucers. I do not understand Vallee’s interest in this tale, nor his lack of critical thinking about it. He seems to have embraced it when the evidence, from the source is dubious at best. I’ve gone through this at length in the past and you can read my analysis of his book and the tale here:

Let me point out here, that Reme Baca, the man with the story, approached Stan Friedman and later Don Schmitt in the 1990s. At that time, the crash seems to have happened over on the Plains of San Agustin. Baca wanted to know how to sell the story. Neither Friedman nor Schmitt were interested in it after doing a bit of the preliminary work. They recognized the flaws in the story, including details that seemed to have been borrowed from the Roswell crash.

When I heard about this story back in 2010, I was bothered by the military reaction, or rather, their lack of urgency when presented with the crash of an aerial vehicle that was obviously not of American design. The Japanese had bombed the American mainland starting in 1944 which killed six Americans using balloon bombs. These were the only deaths on the American mainland caused by enemy action. The point is, this avocado craft could be the vehicle created to kill Americans and destroy property. The military would have had no way of knowing anything about this craft at the time but would know that it was critical for them to find out immediately.

We learn that Baca and his pal watched the military retrieval operation from hiding off and on for a couple of days. Toward the end, when all, and I mean ALL, the soldiers left the site, they were able to explore the craft. I can think of no circumstance in which such an unknown vehicle, once loaded on the flatbed truck for removal, would have been left unguarded. Why didn’t they just drive off at that point?

And, we are told that the boys, and later several adults, walked the site, recovered samples of debris, some of which was later incorporated in Christmas decorations. But, of course, all that debris has disappeared and is therefore unavailable for analysis.

I believe that no one reading the book, which presents scant evidence for the event, would believe this fairy tale. It makes no sense at all. Vallee makes the case for other such events in the book as a way of validating the Trinity crash. But I have gone into that at length in other postings about some of that evidence, which you can read here:

And you can listen to my interview with Vallee and Harris about Trinty and other aspects of the UFO phenomenon here:

As I said, this smacks of a set up. The government is now going to investigate this tale of a crash seriously, only to discover that it is not based in reality. They can then say, “Why, yes, we did investigate this, and like all other claims of a spacecraft crash, we found that it was not true. Like Roswell, there is no substance to this.”

Again, as I have said in the past, this is right out of the debunking playbook described by Dr. H. P. Robertson in 1953. He, and his CIA-sponsored panel, after a week of reviewing the UFO evidence assembled by Project Blue Book and the Air Force, decided that the evidence did not support the conclusion of alien visitation. They suggested that the public be told of mysterious UFO events and then trot out the explanations, removing the mystery. They suggested that teachers not allow students to read books about UFOs for book reports. They had a whole program to stimy interest in UFOs, which, for some reason they believed posed a threat to national security… but all that is a discussion for another time.

I wonder if we can find parallels with this thinking in our government today… but I digress.

Trinty is not a true story. It is based on two first-hand witnesses, only one of whom is alive today. They incorporate the statements of a second-hand witness or two in this tale. There are many better cases for the government to research if they truly wish to understand what has gone on over the last 80 years. If they’d like a list, I can provide one for them… cases of multiple witnesses with physical evidence, interaction with the environment, radar sightings and photographs and film (and no, I do not have a single case will all those elements, but I can name several that do contain multiple chains of evidence.)  

However, this story would not be on that list. And that’s the real point. Why waste time on a case that even the most enthusiastic UFO researcher knows isn’t true?


edward said...

Reme and I are telling the same story about a crashed craft near San Antonio, but from different perspectives. There is some confusion regarding the time frame (1945 or 1947) but that can be worked out. Reme's site is the exact site the cameraman described and gave directions to. If you want to understand Roswell, you need to listen to me. The creek Reme mentions is Walnut creek, and the canyon it runs through is Nogal canyon. You need to listen to what I have to say. I'm not trying to hoax or deceive or BS you in any way. The crash site and events the cameraman describes are as true as anything is true. Nogal canyon is located at the very NE section of the plains.
The same is true for the MP's story. The circumstances around his contact with me and his attempt to tell the truth about what he experienced that night are all absolutely true. I think it's about the best testimony concerning what happened at Roswell.

William G. Pullin said...

Imagine that. Nonsense being embraced by a member of the UFO research community. Yet another story that is not supported by data which is beyond the anecdotal, with red flags to boot. It boggles the mind how some experienced researches can abandon their critical thinking skills. Just imagine what could be accomplished if only we didn't waste so much time and effort on cases that are hoaxed, non-sensical, or not supported by any valid evidence.

Unknown said...

It’s primarily been Vallée claiming that AARO pushed the date back from 1947 to 1945 in order to investigate the dubious Trinity case. Doesn’t it make more sense that the agency moved the date so that foo fighters and ghost rockets would be included?

John Steiger said...

Kevin: I bet you're right. This whole Trinity case investigation scenario smacks of a feigned interest in seeking out the truth masquerading the real intention of a set-up to study a weak case in order for the military/gov't to disavow UFOs.

Deja vu all over again.

Incidentally, the link to the Tucker Carlson/Nick Pope discussion is on YouTube at (3:16 duration).

Query: Do Carlson and Pope know they are being used OR are one or both of them in on it?

RRRGroup said...


Patrick Huyghe (Anomalist) was intrigiue by some native American tales I had placed on my blog.

His interest lay in one of those stories that mimicked Vallee's Trinity tale.

Because I lambasted Vallee much as you do here, it was suggested that I re-mention the Indian story -- and credible source -- showing that Trinity may not have been made of whole cloth.


Moonman said...

It is so crazy this Trinity story and Vallee supporting it for no good reason. What is the world coming to?

Reminds me of the unclear (fuzzy) thinking of Avi Loeb (like Vallee in stature) in wanting to use a magnet to pick up alien spacecraft debris and actually convincing investors to pony up millions. Look at their proposed ship and method and see it could hardly likely pick up anything related to the specific meteor, more likely past debris accrual, if anything.

edward said...

Kit Green (Blue Jay) told us "The Alien Autopsy film/video is real, the alien cadaver is real, and the cadaver seen in the film/video is the same as the photos Kit saw at the 1987/88 Pentagon briefing."
We will never understand our UFO predicament until we come to grips with these facts:
The Alien Autopsy is an actual event, the Alien Autopsy footage is real film, and we share the earth with this dissected creature.

KRandle said...

Ed -

Since the film is fake, and there is overwhelming evidence supporting that view, it means that Kit Green as less than candid about seeing the film. I just wish you'd take time to review the evidence rather than dismissing it without much in the way of analysis.

edward said...

OK, I don't know what evidence I'm dismissing, but if you list it I'll try to tell you what I know. But I can say the same for you. Why don't you take some time to review my evidence? I'll start: How did Reme and I agree on the same location for the crash site? (Nogal Canyon is not a well know location.
What are the chances that this could happen? I don't know Reme and he doesn't know me. I found his story in a New Mexico magazine, not connected to me in any way. I could tell from his descriptions that he saw the craft. He was there, even though there are few minor details we disagree on. My directions to the site were from Ray Santilli. He didn't know Reme, yet we both ended up describing Nogal Canyon. And I can see from the information he provided that we were both in the same location. Also, have you ever talked to Kit Green and told him how mistaken you thought he was?

Thomas Kelly said...

I agree. I lost some respect for Vallee when I read this book. He demonstrates a complete lack of critical thinking in presenting the story. Not a compelling or credible story.


I believe JV is the best man on this earth by nowadays that can write a true story like Trinity. Because there is testimonies still living and they give Trinity a credible case. All the story was investigated end proven true. Point.

KRandle said...


I fear you are off base on this one. The testimony given is filled with problems. The reaction of the military makes no sense whatsoever. There is no physical evidence that doesn't have a terrestrial explanation. And both Stan Friedman and Don Schmitt spoke with Baca in the 1990s andhe seemed more interested in making some money than providing accurate and credible evidence... not to mention that comparisons with what he said ten, what he said in 2010 and what was said now seems to be somewhat contradictory. Jacques Vallee has done some exceptional work in the past. This latest is not his best.

atennisfan said...

Kevin, I greatly admire Jacques Vallee and his work, and his unfortunate endorsement of the so-called Trinity case - if it even is a case - will not change that. Every single investigator of UFOs, 👽 👽 👽 and close encounters has backed the wrong horse now and then. You have changed your mind about certain cases as well 😉 - which is perfectly ok btw and the honorable thing to do when new information becomes available! A good investigator doesn't ignore new informations, and I hope that Vallee will eventually realize that he and Paola Harris don't have any hard evidence at all that the two old men really witnessed the crash of a UFO in 1945.
I think that something might've crashed which was subsequently retrieved. That part of the story might be true. But the surprising lack of strict security measures doesn't hint at an alien origin of the crashed object. This should have been a huge red flag for Vallee and Harris! It could be argued that the early crash investigators had no experience at all with handling UFOs and little grey aliens. But if this avocado-shaped contraption really was a piece of alien technology and not just one of the shells for the bombs of the Manhattan project, the security measures would have become much stricter.
I think that Jacques Vallee who is over 80 by now, might not have had the vigor and the energy anymore to investigate thoroughly. He might've hoped that at the end of his liflife he would be finally able