Why Jesse A. Marcel Dropped out of the Investigation

People occasionally ask me why Jesse Marcel, Sr. was left out the investigation once he had returned from the Debris Field with samples of the strange, metallic material. They say that you don’t leave your Intelligence Officer out of the investigation.

Good question and interesting point.

Fran Ridge and I were discussing who ran security at the Impact Site, he mentioning Robert T. Darden and me saying it was Major Edwin Easley. The documentation seemed to be on my side in this, but that doesn’t matter here. The point was that it caused me to review the transcripts of the separate interviews with Bill Rickett conducted by Don Schmitt and Mark Rodeghier. Turns out there was a clue about why Marcel disappeared from the event after he had gone out of the Debris Field.

Rickett, in describing his trip to the Impact Site, mentioned that they had expected Marcel to be there, but he wasn’t. Given the time line, the reason was that Marcel had been sent to Fort Worth with samples of the debris. While the investigation was continuing in Roswell, and had shifted to the Impact Site where the craft and bodies were found, Marcel was in Fort Worth meeting, first with General Ramey and later with the press. Although Marcel had been ordered not to say anything to reporter J. Bond Johnson, who took six photographs of the balloon debris, he was later quoted in the Fort Worth Star-Telegraph about what he had seen.

Don Schmitt and me on the Impact Site. It was much closer
to Roswell than the Debris Field near Corona.

By the time that Marcel returned from Fort Worth, the clean up on the Impact Site had been completed, the material taken to the base and stored in a hangar there.

Marcel was out of the loop for two reasons. First, he had been identified in the press release, which made him a target for reporters. That wasn’t a problem, because, he was in Fort Worth while the investigation and clean up continued in Roswell. Once Ramey declared it was a weather balloon, the reporters disappeared. Second, by the time he returned, the investigation, such as it was, had been completed in Roswell. If the craft was alien, the information about it would have been classified as top secret. There was no reason to expose Marcel to what had been learned while he was in Fort Worth. There was nothing he could add to the discussion at that point.

Did Marcel know about the recovery of the bodies? I would say, based on my experience as an Intelligence Officer, probably. But he hadn’t seen them. He had heard about them but he was uncomfortable talking about something that he hadn’t seen with his own eyes. He had seen the debris field and tested some of the debris. He said that it was from something that had not been made on Earth. He had not seen the bodies. As I say, I suspect that he had heard the rumors, but to him they were only rumors. He didn’t mention them for that reason.

It was Rickett’s statement about Marcel coming out to the Impact Site that sort of triggered these thoughts. You don’t expose more people to the secrets than are necessary. With the cleanup complete, there was no reason to bring Marcel into the event. It was over.

In fact, it seems that Marcel had asked Sheridan Cavitt, the CIC OIC in Roswell about a report he had written. Cavitt refused to show it to him, suggesting again, that Marcel had no need to know. The event was over.

And Ben Franklin had said that three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. You simply did not provide information to someone who had no need to know, and by the time Marcel returned from Fort Worth, he had no need to know.

Okay, let the firestorm begin… I just handed in the book manuscript that I have been working on these last several months and am between projects. For those keeping score at home, I’m about to begin another of the Vietnam Ground Zero books written by “Eric Helm.” 

Did the Balloon Debris Ever Reach Wright-Patterson AFB?

 

David Rudiak

Every once in a while, something new about the Roswell case pops up. David Rudiak was making a somewhat routine search of the newspapers from July 1947 and found the following from the Dayton Hearld for July 9. You might say that it provides a different perspective on our ongoing search for evidence about the Roswell events.

According to the newspaper, under the headline, “Field Test ‘Out’ On ‘Flying Disc.’”

Wright Field will not receive the weather device which for a while yesterday was believed to be a flying disc.

Plans to send the object here for study were changed when the identification was made.

The office of technical intelligence received the following message from headquarters of the Army Air Forces this morning:

“In view of positive identification of this object as a Rawin high altitude sounding device (radar target) it appears unnecessary to forward it to you.”

The FBI telex that went out from Fort Worth on the evening of July 8, was based on an interview of Major Curtan (who, in reality, was Major Kirton) who told the FBI agent that the object was “hexagonal in shape and was suspended from a ballon (sic) by cable, which ballon (sic) was approximately twenty feet in diameter… Disc and balloon being transported to Wright Field by special plane for examin[ation].”

To me, the news article suggests that the material was not sent on to Wright Field because it was identified in Fort Worth as a common weather balloon and not an alien space craft. There was no reason to send it to Wright Field with the identification and photographs made in Fort Worth. That would suggest that the interviews conducted by the Air Force in 1994 reflected poor memory about the event but were important because they underscored the Mogul explanation.

The article says the balloon and the rawin
target were not sent on to Wright-Pat.

And, I suppose the skeptics will say that it was just one more way to cover up the super-secret Mogul project. Why bother with follow up interviews or ask to see the balloon and rawin target at Wright Field because it was identified as just a common balloon and radar target?

But looking at the interviews conducted by the Air Force, several of the retired officers were asked, specifically, about a cover up. Albert Trakowski, told Colonel Jeffrey L. Butler and First Lieutenant James McAndrew, “Concerning a cover story for the project Mogul, there was no planned cover story. I do not recall any documentation nor any efforts develop a cover story even though security for Mogul was of great concern.”

And, Trakowski said, “I became aware of this only after Colonel [Marcellus] Duffy called me from Wright Field from his home. This was just an informational call, he just wanted to let me know that someone had come to him with some debris from New Mexico and he said, ‘this sure looked like some of the stuff that you launched from Alamogordo.’ Duffy was very familiar with the various apparatus and materials for the project, so if he said that it was debris from the project, I’m sure that’s what it was. He was not concerned with a breach of security for the project.”

What we have here, then, are Trakowski and Athelstan F. Spilhaus, relating what Colonel Duffy might have done. Spilhaus wrote, “All the NYU personnel had left Alomogordo [sic] when the ‘material’ was brought in – someone stated that it may have been Col Duffy’s and therefore was sent to him at Wright-Patterson – not because it was extraterrestrial. It is a logical reason to send it (the debris from the desert) there – not because it was special – Col Duffy was a fine officer and I’m sure he’d recognize it.”

Trakowski and Spilhaus, as second-hand witnesses, were providing information about the debris being forwarded to Wright Field, but suggesting it was just a few samples. Yet we have first-hand testimony from eyewitnesses suggesting more than just a few scraps of the material hand carried to Wright Pat. In fact, crates had been constructed to house the debris for the trip out of Roswell.

There were already pictures of Jesse Marcel, Roger Ramey and Thomas Dubose published in the newspapers with that balloon and target. Sort of a “Nothing to see here. Move along,” ploy. I mean, who, really thought it was an alien spacecraft in those pictures until Jesse Marcel began talking about it in those terms in 1978, so long after the event.

But since the balloon experiments being conducted in New Mexico weren’t classified, though there seemed to be a great deal of concern about possible security breaches of the ultimate purpose. The next day, that is July 10, more pictures of the balloons and rawin targets were published in newspapers around the country. You must wonder what those officers interviewed in 1994 were talking about given the documentation from 1947.

What we do have is the newspaper article that David found, telling us that the flight to Wright Field was cancelled, and the second-hand memories of two of those involved in some fashion with Mogul, telling us that Duffy had identified it. This really boils down to which of the witnesses to you care to believe. But I will note that if General Ramey and his weather officer, Warrant Officer Irving Newton, had already identified the material and given that identification to the press, what purpose would be served by sending it on to Duffy at Wright Field?

Nick Pope: A Sad Note

 

Just last night, I received some sad news about Nick Pope. He published a brief message that said:

A while ago, following some digestive issues, I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer. Unfortunately, it's Stage 4 and has metastasized to my liver. While I know that it's kindness and hope that leads people to suggest healers and supposed miracle cures, and to say things like "fight it", and "you can beat it", I'm afraid my diagnosis and my situation leaves no doubt whatsoever: I can't beat it.

Nick Pope at a UFO Crash Conference held years ago in Las Vegas.

What an amazing adventure I've had! A 21-year career at the UK Ministry of Defence, where I got involved in subjects ranging from financial policy to counter-terrorism; from military policing to UAP. And I saved six cows; it's a long story! The things I've done; the places I've been; the people I've met; and the secrets I've been privy to. I wouldn't have swapped it for the world. And then a second career, where my previous government UAP role brought me to the attention of the world's media, leading me to become a regular commentator on TV news shows and documentaries, as well as consulting and acting as spokesperson on various UFO and alien-themed movies, TV series and video games. The media called me the real Fox Mulder!

The true highlight, of course, is life with my wonderful, beautiful and incredibly smart wife, Elizabeth. She's a real-life Agent Scully: a scientist, a skeptic and a redhead. We met randomly in the lobby bar of the Fairmont Hotel in downtown San José (she was an anthropology professor at San José State University) in October 2010 and got married 3 months later. We applied successfully for my Green Card and she had me shipped over and imported to the U.S., where a new adventure began, as Elizabeth and I enjoyed wildlife watching at our wonderful home in Tucson, desert hikes, film noir, true crime, country music, Sunday lunches with my in-laws, and much more besides. Recently, we had an amazing one-year adventure in New York City, living 5 minutes from Times Square, and having a wonderful view of the Empire State Building from our apartment window.

We proofread each other's books and articles (I love commas, hyphens and exclamation points way more than Elizabeth, and managed to win at least a few of those battles), and I'm supporting her in her ongoing fight for free speech, academic freedom, and keeping political correctness, superstition and identity politics out of science and academia. The White House Press Secretary Tweeted one of her recent newspaper articles, which shows the huge impact she's having.

Nick Pope at the Las Vegas Crash Conference.

I kept working for as long as I could (right up until last week), with my various film/TV interviews, conference appearances, and live events, including my position as moderator of Ancient Aliens Live - where I think I did 94 shows. Sadly, the time has come where I've had to step away from this work.

A lot of people have followed my work on UAP. I'm loath to use the word "fans", because I'm not a celebrity. But I am a public figure, and many people have followed me on my journey as I've sought to keep the UAP subject in the public eye, and to frame it as a defense, national security and safety of flight issue - as well as a fascinating science problem. Some of this work has been public knowledge, but some such work, of necessity, has been done behind the scenes. I hope I've helped move the needle forward. But most people, of course, know me through my media interviews and live events. To everyone who's followed me on my journey, thank you - and good luck with your own journeys. I wish you every success and happiness.

It's all been amazing, and I'm grateful for the things I've done, not mournful for the things that I won't now get to do.

Per Aspera Ad Astra!

Nick Pope, Tucson, Arizona, February 12, 2026

I wish Nick all the best in this tough time.