Back on August 14, I had
a chat with Robert Sheaffer, a reasonable skeptic. I have always thought that
we need to know how the other side thinks if for no other reason than to
prepare rational and intelligent counterarguments. We had a good conversation about
a variety of topics, but concentrated on the information that has come out in
the last few years. I was interested in his take on the Tic-Tac videos and if
the skeptical community had an alternative to the suggestion of off-world craft
preforming exotic and impossible maneuvers. He provided some interesting
commentary on those videos.
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| Robert Sheaffer |
For those who have been paying attention, I did interview Kevin Day, one of the sailors on one of the ships involved in the sightings from the USS Nimitz task group that sparked the renewed interest in UFOs. While Sheaffer provided a suggestion that involved electronic glitches, Day suggested that along with the sensor detections, there were visual sightings as well. You can review the Kevin Day interviews, both audio and visual here:
Toward the end of the
interview, I did ask Robert what he wanted in the way of evidence that would
suggest alien visitation. His answer surprised me. You and listen to the audio
and watch the video here:
The following week,
based on the sudden interest in the Kingman, Arizona crash, I flew solo, which
means there was no guest. I had reached out to several people about coming on
the show but only heard back for David Rudiak. He was continuing his search for
additional information and asked for a delay of a week or two. He’ll be coming
up soon with some additional insight into the Kingman crash.
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| David Rudiak |
I also reached out to
proponents of the crash who have, in the past, been ready to tell their side of
the story. Neither Harry Drew nor Preston Dennett bothered to respond to my
invitations. I have seen Dennett talking about the Kingman crash on other
venues and have read the relevant parts of his book that contains information
on Kingman. There are many problems with his analysis.
I was also concerned
because the Mohave Museum of History and Arts in Kingman, was reported to have
documents relating to the crash. But given some of the research I was able to
conduct from my armchair, I don’t believe they have anything from an official
source. I do know that they have a copy of Ray Fowler’s report on the crash,
though I don’t know if the have the whole file. I suspect they do, and we know
that part of that file contains the information about Arthur Stansel’s claims
of astral projection and interaction with alien beings. Other documents shown
were a collection of newspaper articles, which is documentation, but not
necessarily accurate information. You can read about that here:
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2024/08/the-kingman-ufo-crash-connumdrum.html
Of course, the Kingman
crash was the topic of my solo show. You can listen to the audio and watch the
video here:
The research into the
Kingman crash has become important because it has been claimed to have happened
and I believe it is one of David Grusch’s twelve UFO crashes. I did speculation
on the list of possible crashes to which he referred and you can read that
here:
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2024/04/david-grusch-and-his-ufo-crashes.html
Granted my list is
speculation but I believe, based on other research, it is fairly accurate. As I
have said, I believe that Grusch is accurately repeating what he has heard which,
of course, doesn’t mean the events he heard about happened. The lone exception
is the Roswell case (though if Shag Harbour made the list, that would be a
second).
There will be more to
come on this topic. I have been reading Lue Elizondo’s book, Imminent,
and will report on it later. My first impression is that it doesn’t advance our
knowledge of UFOs, or as he calls them throughout, UAP. But that is a
discussion for another time.
9 comments:
I listened to the solo podcast about the Kingman UFO crash story, and it left me with this question; did Arthur Stansel join the UFO group before, or after, his alleged encounter with the crashed saucer? Also, when did his alleged remote-viewing contactee experiences happen? I ask because there are examples of individuals who've had legit anomalous UFO experiences, experiences which inspired them to get involved with the UFO community, and their belief system changed accordingly.
Thanks Kevin, agreed concerning Mr. Elizondo's book. Mr. Sheaffer is certainly a reasonable skeptic, your program with him was quite enjoyable and revealing. Good to be able to listen to your programs once again. All the best!
Regarding your Aug 14 show, you expressed a concern if aluminum had been found in crashed UFO materials since you thought that would indicate it likely to be terrestrial. Even the guest thought aluminum was the same across the Universe. However, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_aluminium states "Aluminum isotopes have found practical application in dating marine sediments, manganese nodules, glacial ice, quartz in rock exposures, and meteorites." So, yes, there is likely a isotopic difference in aluminum across space. The question of whether clever miscreants could irradiate terrestrial aluminum to create an interesting isotopic ratio is up for discussion.
"... Robert Sheaffer, a reasonable [sic] skeptic." Really?
Robert Sheaffer is as "reasonable" in his skepticism toward UFOs as the snake in the Garden of Eden had concern for the welfare of Eve.
Kevin, you're being taken for a ride ... but it's your ride to take!
Sheaffer calls this "Ufoology" or some such. I wouldn't call him a "reasonable" skeptic. Treating him and Mick West with kid gloves is a mistake. Their agenda is not ours.
Commander -
Given the timing and locations, I believe he joined that group long after the alleged Kingman crash.
John and Ron -
I have dealt with many skeptics over the years and Robert Sheaffer was always willing to listen and discuss. Did you notice what he would accept as evidence of alien visitation. He didn't demand a craft and bodies, but a sighting that had multiple independent witnesses with some sort of physical or electronic evidence such as photographs or radar. That seems quite reasonable to me.
Kevin: In my view Mr. Sheaffer is "always willing to listen and discuss," because he is vigilantly searching for ammunition to use AGAINST the UFO community. Are you familiar with his authored books, e.g., Bad UFOS and Psychic Vibrations? They are starkly anti-UFO in their point of view and prejudiced from the outset! P.S. I'm not stating that Mr. Sheaffer is an evil human being or suggesting that you should not interview him (that's all fine and well) -- but I do not trust his judgment re: UFOS, alien encounters, etc. nor do I accept his long-held biases against those of us who derive meaning from the sincere and productive efforts of investigators/researchers in the field of UFOs. And P.P.S. Thank YOU very much for your sincere and productive efforts resulting in now 30 or so books, over 200 radio episodes, and this incredibly informative Blog (!)
For anyone wanting to see what Kevin and I will be primarily discussing on his next podcast, here are links to a dozen June 21-25, 1950 newspaper articles I just found covering a very bizarre story from Kingman of 3 badly burned men (referred to as "youths" and "young men"), found near a mountain forest fire, taken by the Captain of the Kingman National Guard to the Kingman hospital where an ambulance seemed to be waiting for them, along with two more men in the ambulance, said to be the driver and an intern. One man had died, and all three were transferred to the ambulance. Thereafter the men and ambulance vanished without a trace, despite intense efforts by the Sheriff to find them. An APB over 3 states failed to find anyone checking into a hospital with burns and no sign of the ambulance. Real news story that was widely carried, just no way to know if it is actually true.
www.roswellproof.com/kingman_main.htm
www.roswellproof.com/kingman_1950_newspapers.html
I reason I just went down this rabbit hole is because Kevin brought up the Kingman crash again, I went looking for more information, and came across more recent claims of historian Harry Drew. Drew, who investigated the alleged Kingman 1953 UFO crash, said he thought another one happened back in June 1950 that started this forest fire, and said the local and other newspapers covered this story of the disappearing burned men and ambulance. He also said the story was widely carried. I was able to verify all these statements, except for a connection to a UFO crash.
He compared it to another UFO crash he said happened May 24, 1953 into the same mountain, started another forest fire, with the Kingman paper saying two strange men found near the fire had been taken into custody and placed in a very secure Sheriff holding facility in Kingman, from which they too vanished. He said this too was carried on the front page of the Kingman newspaper (Mohave County Miner). Unlike 1950, I don't have the Kingman paper from 1953, and searches don't turn up mention of it in other papers, unlike 1950.
In the June 1950 Kingman incident, there was no indication in the news stories of what started the forest fire or anyone reporting something crashing into the mountain. However, there were UFO incidents at the time near Kingman, including on June 20 in Flagstaff, a mass sighting by thousands in Phoenix June 29 and a very bizarre mass sighting over Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and California from June 24 that should have been visible from Kingman. This left a huge spiral trail over a period of an hour and hundreds of miles of travel. It was seen by multiple plane crews in the air, dozens of pilots on the ground, and multiple CAA control tower operators. It got some national coverage when a United Airlines plane crew held a press conference in Los Angeles a few days later and reported the sighting.
See:
www.roswellproof.com/ufo_calnev_1950.html
While we are on the topic of Arizona mass sightings, here's another one from Tucson, Arizona, Feb. 1, 1950, where hundreds to thousands of people in Tucson saw a brilliant object flying at high speed and trailing a black trail said to have spread out a mile wide. (This case was the very first thing mentioned by Donald Keyhoe in his 1950 best-selling book, "The Flying Saucers Are Real.")
http://www.roswellproof.com/UFO_Tucson_1950_newspapers.html
"Did you notice what he would accept as evidence of alien visitation. He didn't demand a craft and bodies, but a sighting that had multiple independent witnesses with some sort of physical or electronic evidence such as photographs or radar."
So he should love Stephensville, no?
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